Sleeper trains circa 1957-63

"Peter Tomlin" wrote

I'd have thought during your period that Stanier Duchesses or Class 40 diesels would be the most likely motive power.

John.

Each time I travelled on the WCML to Edinburgh or Glasgow between 1958 and 1964 the train engine was a Princess Coronation. Later journeys in the 60's were Diesel Electrics followed eventually by Electric traction.

One of my last daytime trips ex Glasgow Central in 1964 a double headed Coronation and for the first time I felt the acceleration of a heavy train.

Peter A.

Might just sneak some Deltics on the ECML.

Chris

The Stanier Pacifics were in general use on the WCML sleepers until c. 1962, with EE Type 4 diesel electrics (later Cl.40) gradually taking over.

This period was also a time of chronic failures with the Type 4s' original train-heating boilers, hence a few 8Ps being steamed on standby until their own end.

I think the Princesses finished altogether* in 1962 and the very last* Duchess run was only 2 years later.

• Except, of course, for the present preserved examples which do not feature on scheduled sleeping car services.

(Princess Elizabeth herself ran south through Winwick this morning, en route from her base at the ELR, Bury, to Toton to haul a Saturday rail charter. There is a picture of her on newsgroup 'alt.binaries.pictures.rail' showing her passing Winwick under the heading:

"UK:Steam - A Low Light Lizzie today :-("

Should still be there if you want to take a peek.)

The message from "Eddie Bellass" contains these words:

Not on my ISP's server, Eddie. They're not doing binaries at present!

You wouldn't care to do the honours, would you? The mail address above works...

Sorry to be a pain.

The message from David Jackson contains these words:

Sorry! I thought I'd sent that by email!!

On its way to you right now Dave ... and I'm on my way to bed! :-)

Peter,

And electric as well since the southern end of the WCML was electrified in your period and there were locomotive changes at Crewe

- from steam/deisel to electric, and vice versa. So you could also look at AL1, AL2, etc.

And that's when you did notice the tremendous difference in acceleration between electric and steam.

Jim.

The message from "Eddie Bellass" contains these words:

Thanks, Eddie. A very moody shot - just like the loco.

Yep - a bit of brain fade on my part :-) It should have been a few years later than the period required. Getting Glasgow North swide electrification dates mixed up with WCML dates.

Jim

And from personal experience I can tell you the B'ham/Glasgow sleepers were always late arriving in Glasgow on Monday mornings, usually around an hour in 1965/6.

Ken.

"Ken Parkes" wrote

Would that be when the class 40s were solely in charge? I gather they were not a patch on the Princess Coronations.

John.

Why would they be any later on Mondays than they would be on any other day? Did I miss something on the thread?

This would be on the LMS ( or former LMS ) line, yes/no?

Weekend maintenence overruns were a common cause in 80's.

Cheers, Simon

The message from "John Turner" contains these words:

They were reckoned to be on a par with an average Royal Scot, a bit better than a Black Five.

"David Jackson" wrote

Mmmm - a 'Royal Scot' should be (and was) much more powerful that a 'Black

John.

The message from "John Turner" contains these words:

I'm told that a Black Five in good nick could keep time if called on to substitute for a Scot - the odds against getting a 5 in good nick were considerable. On paper, the 40s were almost as good as the Duchesses, but on the line they had nothing in reserve and some enginemen I've talked to didn't rate them and prefered a steam loco if the job looked like being a tough one.

"David Jackson" wrote

I suppose there could be some credence in that if we're comparing a 'good' Black 5 with a Scot in poor fettle, but I'd expect a Scot to be a street ahead of a 5 if both were in similar condition, after all a Scot was classified as 7P compared with 5MT for the smaller 4-6-0.

John.

No idea, nor apparently had BR. I travelled on eleven Sunday/Mondays over twelve months at roughly monthly intervals, B'ham New Street to Glasgow Central, presumably via Warrington though I was never awake. All diesel hauled. I can't recall being less than half an hour late. On two occassions I shared with weekly commuters who said it was always the same. The worst was the Whitsun Bank Holiday weekend when I had to go to Aberdeen for an interview on the Monday (not a Scottish holiday). The train was 76 minutes late, ten of which we sat out just across the river. Booking Office said it was not possible to get to Aberdeen for 1.30 pm. But a couple of old station staff new better and sent me round Fife, arriving IIRC at 1.20. Wish I had kept the bit of paper they wrote on. I remember sitting on an empty country station in glorious sunshine looking at what I assumed was the Forth in the hazy distance. Didn't get the job but relished that detour.

Ken.