Steam Locomotive Operation

Sorry, forgot to say I'm interested in BR period, Southern Region, if that makes any difference.

Ian J.

Thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that steam locomotives weren't let to cool down completely overnight, as this stressed out the metals, leading to a shorter life span for firebox and boiler, etc. Would a small fire have been remade in the firebox in order to keep the temperature more even?

Ian J.

"Ian J." wrote

temperature

You will note that I suggested the fire would be dropped or cleaned. I'm no expert on this by any stretch of the imagination, but fires could get very dirty and often it would be easier to drop the fire completely and start a fresh one.

I reckon it would take days for a working steam locomotive to cool completely, and this would certainly not happen overnight.

The length of time between the end of one duty and the beginning of the next would also be a factor.

John.

"John Turner" wrote

Of course.

g] fire relit in time for next turn. This might need to be some hours beforehand, depending on how cool the boiler had become.

On or about Mon, 21 Jul 2003 at 12:06 GMT, Terry O'Brien illuminated us with:

probably part of f] but while the fire's out, check the firebox lining?

Ian J > I was under the impression that steam locomotives

temperature

I believe it was the intention of OVS Bulleid to have a large boiler at every shed to constantly produce hot water which would then be piped through to the engines standing on shed. This would reduce fatigue on the firebox stays due to the constant temperature gradients and would also ensure that the engine was ready for work quickly the following day.

His technology demonstrator for this was to have been the second Leader locomotive. Of course, the Leader project was "too much too soon" and it eventually died, taking Bulleid's dream of instant access steam engines with it.

-- Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

temperature

The video I have of a preservation railway in South Australia states that they start at about 4.00am lighting the fire for a 9.00am run. I think that is after standing overnight.

Andrew

self-evident.

Water is very good at holding its heat. My own experience with preserved locos is that a large boiler can still be warm (but cool enough to touch) after 4 days. If the fire is relit next morning, it doesn't take very long to start producing steam as the water may already be at 80 degrees C. If the fire is dropped at, say, 8pm then there may even be some pressure left on the gauge at 6am.

Of course, everything cools down quicker in winter.

Cheers David

I was at Leicester GC in the early 50's, when an engine came in it was left by the crew in a line at the coal shunt, at times of the day there could be quite a number waiting there. The crews that worked on "desposing" of the engines would then take the engine under the coal hopper and fill the tender. The engine would then be taken on the pits and the fire dropped. How this was done depended on the type of engine A3's V2's you wind down a set of the grate and push the clinker through. B1's had rocker bars, which broke up the clinker and then pushed through. Some of the older goods engines such as O1's/O4's the fire had to be lifted out through fire door and thrown on to the ash pit ( a very hard job). However you aways left a small fire in the box., unless the engine was going to be shut down for repairs. You then had to go under the engine and rake out the ash, a terrible job if the wind was in the wrong direction. Finally if it was not a self clean smoke box the box had to be shoveled out, again a hard job if the wind was in the wrong direction. The engine was then turned on the turntable if required, the turntable we had at the sheds was one you had to push, the trick was to get it balanced so it was nice and easy otherwise you had to put your back into it. We would top up the tender with water. The engine was then put on the shed and, as noted by another contributer, there was a "steamraising guy" who would go around and keep an eye on the engines in steam awaiting their next turn of duty. Preparing the engines for duty well thats another story all together. Cheers Graham Grant Sydney Australia

"David Bromage" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@omni.com.NOSPAMTHANKYOU.au...

In North America, engineers (drivers) and fireman did almost nothing when it came to preparing and disposing of their engine(s). They'd show up for their "shift", the engineer would do a quick check around and do a spot of oiling or greasing (Motion on many North American engines was greased not oiled) and the fireman would give the fire a quick once over, and then away they went. About 15 minutes worth of work.

At the end of the "shift, anywhere up to 16 hours later, the engine would be spotted on the "Inbound Lead" of the roundhouse, and the engine crew would walk away, job done, time to go hone.

Preparation and disposal of engines was the job of a "Hostler" and the roundhouse labourers. The Hostler would be the one to drive the engine around the various service spots, water, coal, sanding tower, turning on the table, placing in stall in required, placing engines in the correct order on the Out Bound Lead, etc., etc.

A Hostler was, and still is, a person qualified to move engines around the engine facility and was permitted to do that amount of switching (Shunting) required for the job. He could and can, for instance, use a live engine to move dead ones, switch loaded coal hoppers for empty ones at the coaling tower, ditto for sand hoppers at the sanding tower and ash gondolas at the ash disposal plant.

-- Cheers Roger T.

I read in ES Cox's book that he observed a US Railroad repairing the firebox lining between shifts while the boiler still had pressure. They used the blower to keep the air circulating through the firebox so the chap inside it didn't fry! Obviously this was on the larger locos.

I've often wondered how they kept water supplies, and water in loco boilers and tenders, from freezing in the harsh winter climates of Western Canada, Alaska and the Northern U.S. I'm sure Roger can tell us.

"MartinS"

Not just Western Canada but all across Canada, except here on the west coast of course, were we have a mild winter. [Gloat].

They didn't bother unless the loco was going out of service for some time.

i.e, the fire was to be dropped and the loco stored outside, then they'd take the same protective measures that they'd use in the UK. Drain tender and boiler and disconnect various fittings, leave all valves open etc. etc.

Remember that roundhouses and engine houses in northern climes were, generally, heated so an out of service loco would be pushed into a roundhouse stall and would be protected from the elements. Also, I believe that North American steam locos were kept in steam for far longer periods than UK locos. I read many stories of UK engine crews having to book on early enough to start a fire and bring a loco up to working pressure from almost zero before leaving the shed.. In North America, there would always be a fire in the grates and enough boiler pressure maintain to keep the appliances working, especially the air pumps as North American steam did not have a hand brake, so steam was always required to maintain brake pressure. As a safety precaution, steam locos generally had either a piece of chain draped over the railhead and around the centre driving wheel where it contacted the railhead, or a couple of pieces of 2 x 4 (4 x 2) wedged between the wheel and the rail. A cheap sort of Scotch-block. Steam locos used on say suburban service would also be kept in steam over weekends and holidays and the fires would not be dropped.

No anti-freezing protection was required when out on the road as the water level in the tenders was constantly dropping and being replenished. However, oil fired locos did have heating coils inside the fuel oil bunker in order to keep the Bunker C fuel oil viscous.

-- Cheers Roger T.

Yes, very often it is easier to knock the lot and start afresh, but the ease with which this is done depends on certain design features of the locomotive. An engine with rocking grates and a hopper ashpan is a good deal easier than one with straight fire bars and an ashpan that must be raked out from a pit.

On an engine with rocking grates, I spread some fresh coal on the back of the fire, drop the front, spread some fresh coal on the front, push the fresh stuff off the back and set the front alight, drop the back, and then spread the fresh coal around the grate. Meanwhile my mate is hosing out the ashpan as we go. Providing there is no clinker, the whole job would take us no more than 20 minutes at the most.

As an example, after knocking the fire at about 8.30pm on a Sunday, the firebox and smokebox are still too warm to comfortably enter until Wednesday. And even then you're sweating like a bastard!

All the best,

Mark.

Many water tanks on US railroads had heating stoves in a small enclosure at the base of the tank, part of the tank stand. Also common was the use of a "frost box", which was an insulated enclosure around the delivery pipes to and from the tank.

In some of the northernmost United States, and Canada, it was not uncommon for the entire tank and stand to be enclosed in a timber building to protect it from the elements.

Cheers,

Mark.

North America practice was about the same, boiler washout about every 28 days. Perhaps the LMS copied North American practice?

However, in North America, at many roundhouses, the washout only took a few hours.

The fire would be dropped, the boiler would be blown down and the water and steam collected and saved. The boiler would then be washed out with hot water. Every roundhouse had a boiler room, used for washouts and steam cleaning running gear and for heating the roundhouse in northern climes.

After the hot water boiler washout, the boiler would be refilled with the steam/water mix previously drained from the boiler. Result, loco back in service in less than an 8 hour shop crew shift.

-- Cheers Roger T.

Not just "US" roads. Canadian roads as well. :-)

The smoke stack in almost all of these examples, both open and enclosed water tanks, went up through the centre of the water tank through a water proof chimney. In Canada, where the tanks water level was usually shown by a ball "floating" up and down what appears to be a flag pole, was actually floating up and down the chimney.

-- Cheers Roger T.

They did, you can read about the study tours in ES Cox's books. Keith

Make friends in the hobby. Keith Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.