What to do?

12v DC control is the same. Pedantically, some controllers might be OK with OO but struggle with some low current N motors. Avoid controllers with harsh PWM feedback systems (examples would include one or two Gaugemaster models. Gaugemaster are clear about this in their instructions and sell alternatives which work well with N. Other PWM feedback controller makers may be less clear.)

Peco turnout motors are transferable.

Quality in N has improved a lot in the last few years, but its still below what is normal in OO for about the same money.

The best running stuff is diesel outline. Some of the newest steam models are starting to look acceptable.

Check carefully what you buy is a modern design, not a decades old model still in production (particularly on steam locos, there are some clunkers still on sale).

As with any scale, check that there isn't a new much improved version either on sale, or about to be released. eg. Farish have announced a new 08, and you'd need a very good reason to buy the old version (at any price) rather than wait a few months.

Kit quality is very variable, with a lot of very poor quality stuff on sale. The very best kits are superb.

You won't save money by going to N; rolling stock and locos cost similar sums to OO. This is because the majority of the cost of the item is research and tooling. In OO the sales are larger, so the development costs are spread over a larger number of purchasers.

- Nigel

Yes, that was the period in which I was not impressed with N. My problem is that I have to work from photos on the net and some of them show some rather ugly little grubs! Looking at the Hattons online offerings there are some not bad GraFar's but equally some really unacceptables (GW Hall!).

I would be very interested in some recommends.

Regards

I can't say about the accuracy of modern models, as my brief encounter with N after many, many years of 00 was in the late 70's. In those days, particularly for modern image, the choice was take it or leave it! I'd strongly recommend getting a bit of N kit a trying it out before changing. I did it, as you are thinking, as I reckoned "more space" would be good. Consequently I ripped up the entire 00 layout, took it all to Sailsbury Model Centre and did a trade-in against a load of N stuff. Having created a layout I realised I dropped a huge one, and got so disheartened I gave the hobby up! Have a really good think, and a play, before taking the leap is all I'm saying.

Cheers Richard

You could end up spending *a lot* more. The same density of layout in the same space as 00 will require four times as much track and stock.

I'm a great believer in the "less is more" philosophy. Keep the track plan from 00 but ease the curves, make the pointwork flow better and lengthen platforms and sidings so you can run longer trains.

MBQ

Those are my ambitions as I have limited "environmental" space at the moment and would like to develop an urban branch whilst having a point to point terminal mainline. I need to be able to go under or over to hide things and give route variety but not expand my stock which truthfully is already out of hand.

Regards

Those are my ambitions as I have limited "environmental" space at the moment and would like to develop an urban branch whilst having a point to point terminal mainline. I need to be able to go under or over to hide things and give route variety but not expand my stock which truthfully is already out of hand.

Regards

Well cheap HO isn't that good either. Nor is cheap OO (think Lima).

I don't know about UK outline, but US/Canadian models from Kato, Atlas, Lifelike, Bachmann, and such are very well done. And they run as well as HO models. Many are now offered with installed DCC, and most come DCC-ready. They cost about the same as HO too, in the $100-$200 plus range. Model Power offers very well done steam locomotives, also in the $100 plus range, and worth every cent.

Looking at Bachmann UK, I see offerings that to me appear to be the same level of quality as their N. American ones. But if the improvement in quality hasn't shown up in the UK yet, just give it time - which means, don't buy the junk. There are some things in which it's not worth compromising. Better to have one good expensive loco than three junkers that give you continual grief.

Otherwise, I'd second MBQ's recommendation to use an OO layout design as the basis for N scale. Just reduce the track centres to N scale values. You can also reduce the gradients, as you need only half the vertical separation for track to cross over itself. Leave everything else as it is. A 24" radius curve in N is equivalent to a 48" radius curve in OO. A

4ft platform in n is equivalent to an 8ft platform in OO, Etc. Very nice!

HTH

The Hall dates from before Bachmann took over Graham Farish which is why it looks so overscale and dated. Bachmann are slowly re-tooling/ building new chassis and introducing new models which are much better than the old Farish models like the Hall. Have a look at the Farish homepage to see what the latest models look like. The quality of the new models is so good now that couplings aside, it hard to tell they are N gauge in photographs. Look at the 08 shunter on the Farish site to see what I mean.

Having said that a lot of the current Farish models does use old bodies which aren't up to current standards, so your choice is slightly limited if you only want highly detailed models. Dapol have fairly recently started producing N gauge models which are also of a much higher quality than in the past, but there range is fairly limited at the moment, but slowly expanding.

Personally I only run diesels due to the period I model, but they do generally run better than steam models, due to the bogies having more give over undulating track. To be honest I don't know how well current steam models actually run as I've never bought one. Reading some of the messages on this Yahoo Group might give you an idea though.

Fred X

Those are my ambitions as I have limited "environmental" space at the moment and would like to develop an urban branch whilst having a point to point terminal mainline. I need to be able to go under or over to hide things and give route variety but not expand my stock which truthfully is already out of hand.

Regards

was it Norman Simmons wot wrote "you can never have too many locos" - man after my own heart.

cheers, Simon

Don't believe a word that Bachfar say about when they'll deliver stuff. If they've announced something, all that means is that they *might* deliver it at some point in the next five years.

Announcing future production 'plans' and showing pre-production samples are two different things though, they announced a 4mm 4Cep two years ago and nothings been heard since, they announced a new 2mm class 08 a year or so ago - pictures of pre-production samples are on the web site...

Having followed the investigative advice cited above I still find myself unable to find any models (steam outline) which turn me on! Most errors are easily visible ( chimneys, wheel form etc) plus pure gawkiness of appearance. It seems that I am facing the choice of making locos from kits or staying as I am but working out some development plan. Not to worry -- something always turns up -- doesn't it?

Peter A

If you are after 'scale modelling' [1] rather than 'operational modelling' then I would strongly suggest that you stay with 4mm scale and modify your expectations, if you are more interested in operating then accept the problems associated with 2mm scale and just enjoy...

[1] ignoring possible track gauge issues

Or you could throw sanity to the four winds an go 0. That might sound daft, but if modelling/realism is the main thing O has a lot to offer. Even I've found myself chucking bits away from kits and making my own or buying "better" ones, something I'd never have dreamed of doing in the past - 0 gets under your skin (and provides a huge long list of very good reasons for never actually finishing anything!).

And there's some *really* good argumets about gauge standards to be had......... ;-)

Cheers Richard

Hmm, or even Gauge 1 (or larger ), but them one might get bitten by the 'live steam bug' (been there, got the scars and tea shirt BTW...)!

British kits and imported Chinese brass for the British market should be 10mm/ft. American stuff (they call it G-gauge), is a bit of a mix and match, as is LGB.

He (Bob Symes-Schutzmann) also did a real hydraulic Hymek. His dieseasel electric was a class 47 AFAIR.

I think we are starting to stray into the territory of the news:uk.rec.models.engineering group... :~)

I remember seeing some of his stuff (including AFAIR a butane fired Bulleid Pacific) at the model railway exhibion at Central Hall too many years ago. They were also doing fun things like electrically fired steam.

If it was at a model railway show it's railway modelling :-)

On finding a bloke who makes Gauge 1 diesel kits (can't remember who) I was dead tempeted by it until it became clear that what exactly consituted Gauge 1 was far from settled - some companies (mentioning no names Aristocraft) seemingly making it up as they go along!

Luckily I don't do steam...... mind, a "live" diesel electric like that Tomorrows World bloke did.........now that would get revenge for the lawn mower on Sunday morings down the road!

Chees Richard