Forging Info Needed

Build yourself a small propane forge. Much easier and quite a bit cheaper than buying 100 S hooks from those guys.

Total cost is about $100.

Go to a scrap yard and get a big chunk of steel for an anvil.

Check out

for ideas.

Thanks, Ernie. Anvilfire is one of the places I got on Google. I just got so many, I haven't had a chance to wade through it all yet. I DID find a source of hooks for $1.50 each. They are acceptable, but not nearly as good looking as the ones with the twist and the flattened ends. But they will get me into production, and get the cash register ringing. But after that, I will need a forge to make custom items now and again.

I have about decided to make a forge from what I have read so far. Probably from a truck drum if I can't find a vessel end.

Ahhhhh. Another project......................... life is good!

Steve

Brakes drums work for COAL forges. For a propane forge you want a 2 foot length of 12" pipe.

"Ernie Leimkuhler" wrote

I guess I will have to bite the bullet and go buy a piece. Too bad I don't work in the oilfield anymore. We used to make barbecues out of large casing. FREE. And we used to make crawfish boilers out of the expensive metal flange gaskets. Ahhhhhhhh. The old days. All the free WD 40, wire brushes, grinder wheels, and rod you could fit into your bag.

Any info on sites where I can find plans for a propane burner appreciated.

Steve

Ernie,

You've piqued my interest in the propane forge - any good links on building one?

Jeremy

I'm not Ernie, but try poking around at

Ron Reil's Forge and Burner designs

Ron Reil's Forge and Burner Designs

Ron Reil's site is excellent source, but I do not like the venturi type burners. You can get much hotter using a blower, and it is not that difficult. It is very easy.

Also, you will need refractory materials. I would reccomend trying some very inexpensive stuff first, because you can do all of this for dirt cheap. Do NOT use portland or plaster of paris in any refractory formulations. Try straight silica sand. It has a very low coefficient of thermal conductivity - amazing but true, and there are tons of it just laying out on the beach. You can also get a lot of mileage out of fiberglass. I have melted it accidentally, but it does work well as an outer layer.

If you can get your hands on fly ash from a coal burning plant, this is also a pretty good insulator.

Also, I would reccoment using washed ash as a cheap refractory. It contains alot of silica and alumina, but you need to wash it by mixing with water, letting the solids settle, then pouring off anything which dissolved in the water. If you do this a couple times you can get rid of the hydroxides. The result is a clay which is an excellent insulator, and it's pretty much free. You must wash it completely, or your refractory clay will not withstand high temperatures. The (hydr)oxides will melt.

However, if you've got a few bucks ceramic fiber (alumina fiber) is great stuff, and there is a new one coming on the market - fused silica fiber.

You'll be hittin' 3,000F no problem with that stuff.

Kaolin clay is awesome stuff as well - it is a high alumina clay. Very high temp stuff.

Zircon sand is good to above 4,000 F !

Hmmmm. I had no trouble reaching welding temperature for pattern welding (so-called damascus) with a homebuilt atmospheric forge. Guess it depends on the forge design. Reil's burners generally work very well for pattern welding if the forge is adequately insulated. you may save a bit on fuel if you adjust the blown forge for a precise mixture, but you can do that with an atmospheric too by adjusting the gas infeed pressure.

I now use a forced air forge in the shop, but that's because it was cheap. :)

For parts for burners and insulating wool, write Jay Hayes at snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net

Jay's good people and maintains a complete line of parts and materials for building forges.

There is no question that venturi burners can get things hot, but the performance can be enhanced by increasing the amount of fuel input, and ordinarily you need a blower to provide enough O2.

I use a regulator on the fuel line, and a fan speed control on the blower. You can adjust the flame quite easily with these 2 controls, creating a flame which is much hotter than a venturi because you are forcing beyond the limits of a venturi burner. I have created flames which are similar looking to an oxy/propane torch, but much larger, and not quite as hot obviously - but close.

I made a torch which was 6 inches in diameter at the tip - nice balanced flame, but I junked it because it was just experimental. The fan did not have enough power. I made it from the body of a large torpedo style heater, and every once in a while it would flashback with a big woof. I have plans to rebuild one about hat same size or bigger, but I need a high volume air regulator.

There is one method which I have not seen tried with venturi burners, is by using a 2 fuel system. I would suggest building your venturi burner as usual, and adding a steel tube which would carry old motor oil such that the tube gets hot and vaporizes the oil. Oil has twice the BTU's of propane, but it is hard to keep it lit. Using this fuel combination system, the oil would burn just fine being assisted by the propane, but the venturi principle may not provide enough O2. I'd say it 's worth a try - used motor oil is cheaper and hotter than propane, and a balanced flame would be just as clean.

Venturi burners really work very well. Check out Ron's site for his larger, cast iron melting, venturi burners.

Besides, then you don't need a plug.

Steve Smith

Critter wrote:

Clearly there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. Since I sometimes do public demos and reenactor events, an atmospheric forge is best for that since electricity may not be available. I have seen a few forced air forges that have 12 volt motors, though.

In the shop I use the forced air forge because it is easier to regulate gas/air mix and I can get higher temperatures quicker. It's easier on gas consumption too.

In my previous post I didn't intend to dispute, just comment that I'd gotten adequate performance from the other choice too.

Whichever works best for _your_ purposes is the right choice. I use both since I do different things in different places and conditions.

Another rather nice gadget is the Sandia Forge (IIRC) which is recuperative, using the exhaust gases to preheat the incoming fuel mixture.

The main thing is: Beat iron! Squash, make flat! Get it hot and hit it hard! :)

Hmmm -- I would think that used motor oil might have some nasty contaminants in it -- ??

One does not really want to burn used motor oil which, in addition to being of unknown composition (think synthetic oil), maybe ladden with metals. In any case, burning used motor oil is illegal in many countries (don't know about the US). Try diesel fuel or home heating oil instead.

You must be very careful with forging,you could end up in the slammer.

To address a few comments from the various posters -

Steve- Melting cast iron with propane would be difficult - you'd get further using coke or even charcoal I believe. I think that it is possible, but a serious attempt would probably require an O2 line somewhere.

John- I definately agree - whatever suits the situation. I've got some real old torches - almost antiques - I love em' for brazing because they are hotter than a Bernzomatic, but not as hot as the OA.

Andy & Jerry - I definately agree, burning oils, plastics, old tires, etc, it all produces a disgusting black cloud of smoke which contains some of the most toxic substances known to man.