Newbie Qs: Bought Hobart CyberTig II 200A welder

I just won a Hobart CyberTig II welding power supply, on ebay, for $9.99. It was a somewhat misdescribed local item on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemV15601498
It is described as ``TIG welding power supply 200 Amps manufactured by Hobart part number CT-200DC-S.''
I figure that, even if I am fully defrauded and the welder is not what I need or does not work, I will not be out of much money. $9.99 is not much. Maybe I could salvage a part or two etc.
I realize that it is 3 phase. I have 3 phase rotary converter in my garage, which now has a 10 HP idler but I can add another 7.5 HP idler. Right now the RPC is on a 60A breaker.
So, now I have questions as a complete newbie to welding.
1. What is a good book about welding, specifically arc and TIG welding.
2. It would make sense to start with some arc welding, since it is simplier and requires less equipment. If so, what welding leads to buy (size etc), what length would make sense etc?
I am thinking of buying 2/0 leads. Is that sensible?
3. What would be a simplest test to see that the power supply is working, perhaps at very low amperage. I have some 4 gauge cable.
4. (I do not have the supply yet) would it have a HF stabilizer circuit?
5. Just how thick stock could I weld with a 200A power supply.
6. Can I make some homemade pedal replacement for some simple welding functions?
I will have many more questions, some possibly ignorant. Please do not be offended. I want to do the right thing wrt welding, and to stay alive and keep everyone around safe, as well. If you see a question that makes you wonder whether I am truly so stupid or am trolling, please err towards the former.
Thank you.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 03:22:52 GMT, Ignoramus27437

Looks like a good enough buy even if it's dead. You can get enough out of the copper in it to pay for it.

Definitely. There's enough copper to pay for the welder and picking it up. The other things are just gravy.

Probably just enough to run it.

I've not seen a good beginners book for stick that I can recommend. Hands on seems to be the best. Google this group for some good info. This is one thing that words doesn't do a good job of describing. Watching someone and taking a class helps tremendously. However it can be learned otherwise (I did) it just takes longer.

Agreed though arc isn't the easiest it's not the hardest either.

I'd say overkill in this case. It does depend on how long you want the leads but most likely I'd say that 25' of #2 would get you started. If you want longer than you might consider upgrading to 1/0 but at 200 amps #2 is probably still more than enough.

Ok. 4 gauge is good enough to get you started. I'd try to keep the leads down to 10' or less but even that's not critical if you keep to the lower amperages.

Definitely. That's pretty much the definition of TIG and this supply is definitely TIG.

As thick as you want with stick. It might take a while but as long as you don't use to big a electrode you can weld as big as you want. I'd recommend 1/8" to start. You can run 5/32 with it and still be fairly safe though there's a chance of overloading your supply or phase converters at that size. With 1/8" you can weld at thick as you want but it may take more passes to get the weld completed. You might also consider 3/32 for thinner stock but that takes a little more practice to weld with.

Definitely.

I don't see any problem other than possibly being confused by all the controls. That's one of the models with all the bells and whistles so you've got more than enough to play with. I do not see the dummy plug in the pics so that may be the first hurdle.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sounds nice, thanks.

Alright. Perhaps, most of the time I will actually need less amps. The circuit to the garage uses wiring that can be upgraded to 75 A breakers (hard to find but available).

Thanks. We have a most excellent community college here (College of DuPage), with many welding classes available dirt cheap. I took some classes there in the past and some were quite good and always the cost was minuscule. The trouble is that the fall welding classes already began.

Thanks. That makes life a little easier...

Okay, so, what would be some easy test of this power supply?

Sounds great.

I see. I will start small, that's for sure. Will start with some simple project, such as a frame for a homemade rock tumbler.

There are manuals for that supply, hopefully they may have some schematic for a dummy pedal replacement. I'll see. Hopefully the seller will not try to back out of the deal. I appreciate your help.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 20 Sep 2005 04:37:30 GMT, Ignoramus27437

Figure 100-120 amps for 1/8 electrodes depending on which ones.

That's a problem but definitely keep them in mind. You could likely learn more there in 5 minutes than several days here.

Get some electrodes, some form of electrode holder (hint they can be pretty cheap), and a ground clamp (cheaper yet), and some scrap steel (preferably 3/16" or thicker for the first attempts). Strike a arc and see what you can do. This is one thing that's hard to describe till you've done it.
There is a test procedure in the manuals for this welder as well. You will need fairly heavy but short lead to run it.

Try to keep the first projects at least 1/8" thick. Preferably 3/16" or even 1/4" is easier to learn stick on.

I noticed that the manuals seem rather thick. You may luck out and get the full service manual as well as the user manual.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That's not as much as I was hoping for... I could redo the wiring and have 100A available in the garage... What makes me wonder though, is that at 200A and 40V, the arc power is 8 kW. That's only 36A at 220V. So, are your estimates of needed single phase amps higher due to supposed energy losses, or am I missing something?

The other issue is that, if everything goes well, I will have a baby (kid #2) next semester. Taking a class next semester will not go well. I will try to call the instructor of the class that started on Sep 12, to see if there is anything that we can do.

Will do...

Got it...

I would hope so, as well...
Thanks Wayne...
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:25:29 GMT, Ignoramus14458

I'm talking output amps. You will need to set the welder to 100-120 amps when using 1/8" electrodes. Input on a 200 amp welder is probably going to be on the order of 50-60 amps max single phase (though with the 3 phase conversion you loose a little).

Ok.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Got it. Thanks.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Btw...its one hell of a stick machine. Got one of the finest arcs Ive ever started and if you turn on the HF..<G> makes it really easy to strike an arc.
This is the smaller brother of the one I have..the one I struck an arc with (tap start) ..and drove a piece of 1/8" 6011 completely though both sides of a piece of heavy wall receiver hitch...when I didnt realize Id set it at 600 amps...chuckle
You really need to figure out how to get mine, Wayne, It will give ya a woodie.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I've found a driver willing but I need more than just the welder to justify the price of fuel there and back. I need a idea of just what you've got available so that I can justify the trip. He'll be limited to about 4000lbs by my trailer so unfortunately my big need of a large lathe is out.
BTW if he does go I'll be sending the PCM-100 sitting out in front of the shop with him. At the very least it'll provide you with some spare parts.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Hummmm need any pneumatic air cylinders (up to 4x36)? 2 Boyer Shultz Surface grinders (need bearings/rebuild) ,14" Logan lathe needing a compound, aprox 3000 various V and timing belts (Gates mostly) NOS but 5-7 yrs old, 2000lbs of new but rusty Browning and Martin pulley bushings still in the boxes, 800 lbs of surface mount bearing arbors, NOS, up to 4" shaft size, 100+/- automatic grease pots with grease http://www.digilube.com/electromd.htm
NOS, electro chemical drive, (cores are supposed to be worth $10 each, most still are powered)
Geeze....C faced 5 hp Allis Chalmers 3ph electric motors? NOS Lots of motors..lots and lots PLCs?
Thompson Lineal bearings? (shafting got scrapped...sigh)...NOS
Ill snap pictures over the weekend of the Stuff Piles & Racks
Of course Ill include the Tweco #5 you were promised. And the Plasma welding torch and Thermodynamics gas console that came with the Hobart. Unless you dont want the gas/Plasma console <G>...WA-1.. IRRC TD sent me the manual, but the manual only covers single gas, mine has flow meters for 2. Hummmm maybe I need to keep that for the Nitrogen/CO2 plasma cutter? Got a pair of spare regulators for N2 and Co2 as a swap?
Ive got crates full of NOS sprockets, pulleys, torque clutches, 40 or so Horton Air Clutches and air brakes....NOS Need a spindle cooler? 45KVA 3ph transformers?
Damned shame you cant come out for a couple days and dig through the Gordon Boxes. Ive never been to the bottom of at least 3 of them..all filled with pulleys, bushings, etc etc etc etc
Heated glue line hoses? NOS Conveyor belting for bench tops..... Corner mounted heavy duty bench tops.... Electric motor mounting dovetail bases with micrometer tensioning screws?
Injecton mould heater cartridges? NOS... Couple bushell baskets full, mostly Big Chief....
Photo Electric and Hall Effect sensors..NOS
I think its time you took a road trip...
Id love to have my back yard, back.

Way cool. Some of the stuff, including that welder, is stored out on a ranch, so Id need a day or two notice to get an a- frame truck or hydocrane.
I live in Taft, California, west-s/w of Bakersfield.
Ive got shitloads of Stuff, including screw machine bar stock in various flavors, mostly 10' bars, up to .625. A fair amount in 303/ 304/316
Hummmm...Im still looking for a small hit & miss project engine to run the 1897 Anderson hacksaw......and the pig bbq.

Poppata poppa ta poppa ta poppata.....
Old oilfield horizontal or vertical, however big I can get....

Got a line on a pair of older but still decent Bridgeport mills..about $900 each.
Pexto 52" stomp shear converted to hydraulic? Weld the pedal back on and its a manual again. With back gauge. $800 as is, 16 ga. DiAcro 6" electric notcher? $1400
Sigh...Ive got way too much Stuff.......and Im picking up a bunch of sheet metal working Stuff in the next few weeks, 36" DiAcro finger brakes....etc etc. One for me..the other will be sold.
Ill need a small 18" -24" shear... and maybe same sized roller.... tig rod, Welding wire...I can always use. maybe some 6010 x 1/8"?
And of course..anything that goes bang out one end.
I suspect we can fill the trailer.....
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Hmm. I could use one of the right size for a hydraulic downfeed on my bandsaw. I've got a good number of air cylinders around here but unfortunately none are close to the right size.

Pulley bushings are a common need around here.

Don't even have a clue what that is. :-)

5HP motors are a occasional need but not a biggie.

No real need at the moment. I've got some linear bearings and rails around though it's not the round style.

Flow meters won't be needed for the plasma cutter. Just regulators which unfortunately I didn't get with mine. I've got some oxygen regulators spare which I might send if you can convert them.

I've got a pretty large selection of large pulleys but smaller sizes are scarce. Air clutches and brakes might or might not be useful.

Unfortunately I can't get away that long. He'll be coming alone if he comes (I just bought a car so I've got to see how the money situation is after we get through with that). At the very least it may be next month before it happens.

Conveyor belting is very handy stuff for many things.

Not a big need.

No use.

Not something I use very often.

Ok. No problem there.

I'm sure he can find you. He's from that area.

Some could be useful though I've already got over 75,000 lbs of stock I've bought in the last year.

You'll have to talk to my driver about that. Actually I've got to build the fuel tank for his soon.

Unfortunately I've not even got the parts of one laying around anymore. I did have one in rough shape but the owner decided he wanted it back after all.

My Abene does me pretty well and I just don't have room for more machines in the shop.

Shear is a big want for sure. The problem is that 16ga is a little light. 14ga would be way preferable and 10ga would bring on the drool factor (in fact a 8' 10ga shear with the right price might be enough to bring me out there).
By notcher I assume you mean corner notcher. That would be nice but it's a little rich for me at the moment (I've spent way to much money this year what with the plasma, steel, and now a car).

Hmm. That sounds nice if the capacity is big enough.

Not got much spare rod laying around unfortunately.
Let's see what I've got in storage now. There's a 20" shaper that needs a new clutch on the drive, a Shop Task with treadmill motor conversion and a stepper drive for the lead screw, hmm. Oh yeah I've got a really nice profile grinder out there I need to get rid of. I'll have to see if I can find the pics I took of it. I've also got a couple of rather large hydraulic power units. Both where used to test aircraft in WWII. One has been converted to a sort of porta power setup (if you've got a crane to move the cylinder). It has a variable displacement pump and large 3phase motor drive. The other is smaller and I've never checked it out. Lots more stuff but I'll have to do a little thinking for it.

:-)
Unfortunately I'm short in that area right now myself. :-)

I have no doubt of that.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Follow the link. They are automatic grease "pumps". You screw them into where a zerk is supposed to be, unscrew the cover, set the dip switches for how often you want a shot(s) of grease, and forget about it until you see the body is empty. About 4" in diameter, about 4" tall. Various types of grease. Work pretty well on ag and oil field equipment. Maint guys love em.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Oh I know about the grease pots. There have been a few on pump jacks around here but most have given up on them.
I was talking the electro chemical drive. That sounds like the wax motors they use on the Maytag washing machines.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I have one Wayne - it is in the shop naturally - I'll try to take a look as I (it might not have name) snag some of the emergency items from the shop and our other building - getting ready for 3 or 4 days of heavy rain and wind from this storm running up Hwy 59 or even I35. I'm 100 miles or less from the Houston Airport...
Have to secure power gen. 10/12 ga. power cables to route power in the house. Chain saws in local storage and gas for the tractor stored close. Check for loose ends...
Wife is baking a cake (She quoted the French Queen - let them eat cake... I smiled naturally). Bagging ice, storing water. and getting rag towels ready for sopping up a broken window or leaky door. Have 4 4x8 3/4" I used to wheel in my grinders to board up something if it goes wild in a tree fall or such. Semi prepared - Charging everything that needed it. Already stocked in food and drinking water.
Such is life - move from Earthquakes to massive windy rainstorms.
Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
Wayne Cook wrote:

-
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Oh..the grease pots use a chemical element that makes nitrogen IRRC and thats what pressures up the grease. No moving parts inside the pot.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Figure out what you need and Ill see how close I can come. Ive got little tiny Bimbas with a 1/2" stroke and Festos that travel out to 36", and double acting slides (Festo) and a shit load in between.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Ok. I'll have to measure the one that's on there.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

What you have there is a machine designed for production tubing welds. It has a sequencer that can be dialed in precisely.
It may be able to be used as a simple manual TIG, but you will have to read the manual.
200 amps will allow you to weld 1/4" materiel single pass.

--
"I love deadlines, especially the wooshing sound they make as
they fly by" - Douglas Adams
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I hope that it is the case...

Thank you Ernie. Are you referring to the tig process, or arc process, or both?
That's pretty reasonable. Just out of curiosity (I am not going to do it any time soon), would I be able to put together a cargo trailer using this welder?
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I am talking single pass TIG welds.
Using multiple passes you can weld unlimited thickness.

Out of steel tube, yes.
--
"I love deadlines, especially the wooshing sound they make as
they fly by" - Douglas Adams
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.