AMA now scaming?

in article snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com, flyrcalot at snipped-for-privacy@scn.org wrote on 3/3/05 7:26 PM:

I must say that's a stroke of pure genius! May I have your permission to spread this, (Without buying anybody's mailing list, of course!)

Morris

I am not directing this to anyone in particular. May I kindly ask that this discussion be taken away from

rec.model.rc.air (hobbying)

to

rec.models.rc.misc ?

In this way, those of us who prefer to deal with the the AMA's actions otherwise don't need to waste time on the triage of these messages.

I am not prepared to discredit the value of the initial information, because it raised a necessary awareness. However, beyond the first few responses, the veracity of the "law of diminishing returns" was being confirmed with every message.

No, most people know that MOST large corporations, or even smaller companies that do mass mailings, very often have a 3rd party do the actual mailing. The lists are not compromised. Now if you pay for, or order the item, then you may have just compromised your own privacy. Also, I have seen where some companies actually get the envelopes (packaging) from one source, already addressed, and then pass on that hard copy to another companies to stuff and mail.

Robert

Sparky wrote:

Hey spark, You are afraid to use your name and must hide behind a keyboard. I know, you'll make up some s*it excuse why you hide your identity, but many of us have proven that names and address on this group don't cause any harm. Using your real name does not lead to more spam.

Do you have any proof the list was sold, or is that pure conjecture on your part? Maybe it is YOU who should hold his lips tight until you know the facts before spouting off.

robert

Sparky wrote:

To bad that doesn't work. The only thing they pay for is stuff thave comes back in the envelope. Actually, in a way, by sending anything other than the required stuff back may constitute fraud. Knowingly and willing trying to cause financial harm to a company. Sounds like legal grounds to me for a civil case, and you just admitted doing it on a public forum. Not the brightest bulb in the box are ya?

Robert

The Lees wrote:

Robert, Law 101:

There is no crime involved in sending a brick or any non-hazard materials back to someone that has sent you a prepaid return envelope or box. The person or company has either prepaid the post office or contracted with them to pay on all items shipped back to the company. The post office gets paid for their services and that is all they care about. The only action that is possible might be a civil suit.

Now as for a civil lawsuit. Little problem there, since no contract exists, (Fails two major requirements: Both parties have to agree that a contract exists and the terms - meeting of minds and an exchange of goods must occur - money for product/service). Sending unsolicited items to someone and demand/request that they return or buy a product puts no obligation on the party receiving it to follow the instructions as no contract exisits. No court is going to waste their time on such a case.

If you are either contracted with or employed by the company and use their postage for things they do not desire then it may be considered fraud and theft of company assets. However anyone receiving junk postal mail is neither under contract or obligation to follow any instructions in that package regarding materials or return envelopes it may contain.

Anyone who has at least taken a business law 101 course or ran their own business understands the basic legal concepts that neither a crime or a civil case exists for a company that sends an unsolicited junk mail to a stranger and receives a brick back in their prepaid return envelope.

So who is not the brightest bulb?

Bob Ruth

Robert Barkus wrote in news:HdEWd.107102$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

I doubt that any company is going to hire an attorney to prosecute a civil case tor the damages they would receive. I also don't think you would get the DA to prosecute such a small case.

Ed,

There is a lower form of marketing - ever got a call from a telephone huckster who didn't want anything from YOU, but they wanted you to send out a solicitation to fleece all your neighbors on their behalf?? Now, that's low!

John

The Amaz>

Strange, this thread began as best I can tell, on March 2 and as of today I've not received the package nor any correspondence telling me it's coming. And I would have thought that those of us with the title of Leader Member might have gotten an early notice, but nothing even now. Actually, about every 3 years someone up there suddently decides the Leader Members should be consulted/notified/advised/questioned and then all's quiet for another 3 or 4 more years. Not too big a deal really, though.

Olin McDaniel, AMA 30932, LEADER MEMBER

Yes, I've been solicited for such service before. You are right, it is low. But I wasn't expecting such an honorable organization as the AMA to stoop so low. Oh well, records are meant to be broken.

Ed Cregger

I am very sorry, but because I did not buy their CD and Coin nor did I return them like a good little boy, you are denied a chance to get scamed. See the one line, in the sea of bs paper that comes with junk, says that I am not obligated to return it if I don't buy. But if I don't return it they can not mail it to another member. Therefore infering I am a bad person if I don't return it since another member may be denied a chance to get scamed. It is bad enough to see AMA scaming like some low life CD club, but I am not going to conspire with them to spread it to other AMA members by returning the junk, so they can try again. However I am certain you will get a letter from AMA as soon as they start their Ponzi Scheme or perhaps a request for donations for the crystal prayer tower to be built for the glory of the AMA. Praise be Brother Brown let's fleece the flock......

Bob Ruth Change & to and to email.

snipped-for-privacy@mindspring.com (Olin K. McDaniel) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.east.earthlink.net:

Snip

Maybe people ought to look up scam. While some might not like this form of marketing, it is not a scam. Usually, one gets ripped off by a scam. So lets see..... you were sent an item of some value, that is a fact. You don't have to pay for it; again a fact. You can send it back at no real expense to yourself; again a fact. You can even PAY for said item of value (if you deem it worth said value); again a fact. They also give you away to not get this type of marketing in the future; again a fact. Yeah, I am not buying the scam idea. Now maybe if the charged your credit card in advance, and told you you could reverse the charges if you didn't want the item..... that could be construed as a scam. That I could understand.

A question. How many of those of you who have complained so loudly on this group, have called the AMA to voice your opinion? How many actually got anything in the mail? Of those, how many actually sent the item back with instructions to not send you any future items? How many will just do nothing and bitch about it the next time?

Robert

BRuth wrote:

Every single person that bitched about it this time!!

Probably the married ones too :-)

Ok, let see I have done sales in one form or another from a hobby shop to selling HVAC systems for water treatment plants in the last twenty years, so I have seen scams and this one qualfies. When advertising is so weighted that it clearly has the intention to decive the person receiving it then it is a scam. The average casual person that does not read every line is going to assume that they have an obligation to either buy the items or return them. Even if they do read the few lines in the sea of hype about them not being required to return it,those lines clearly imply that the person is doing a diservice to his fellow members, if they choose not to return the junk should they decide not to buy it. As I said it is a master piece of low life advertising going up to the edge without crossing over to fraud.

Yes, I have filed my complaint with AMA

I don't like this form of marketing, nor do I respect anyone that uses deceptive marketing practices. AMA is not the CD of the month club and it is not supposed to be out to fleece its members.

I would not be bitching if AMA had sent a letter clearly stating that the CD and Coin were free no obligation samples to keep right up front. Here is the information if you decide that you want to subscribe either for the CD's or coins. If you do not wish to keep these free samples then please consider returning them free of charge to AMA. That is not how this scam was presented. Between my wife and myself belonging to several organizations over the years I have seen many of these types of samples and respectable sales pitch that went with them. You don't have to drop to the scam sales pitch to make the sale to members.

If Brown and his buddies have the time on our payroll and resources to waste hiring the type ad agency it takes to put this kind of scam together then they dont need to be trying to fleece the membership and their hours need to be cut back to save our money. AMA is a non-profit organization that is supposed to be dedicated to its members and their needs. If you like to see it destroyed, please encourage this kind of scam activity. It will turn off the members and drive down the membership even more. Times are changing and with the sea of small electrics that don't need an AMA field to fly, the next generation is not flocking to AMA. CD and Coin scams will not generate the money or draw the next generation into AMA to keep it going. I fly electric gliders now and live in an area where I can drive easily to open places to fly them. I don't need AMA, but up till now I have paid my membership dues since I got back into flying because I thought AMA had the same nobal goals as it did when I first joined as a kid flying U-Control. As I said before it maybe time to reconsider membership the next time dues are up. I am certain that my money won't be missed since AMA has sunk to scaming and there are members that consider it the norm. However that is how organizations for hobbies fade and die by being considered to be useless by the next generation and losing touch with the older one.

Enough Said.

Bob Ruth

Robert Barkus wrote in news:0HkXd.349100$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

Scams I believe are like beauty! More in the eye of the beholder than a phrase in a dictionary. Some scams no doubt are so blatant that virtually everyone agrees as to their true nature. Others are not so obvious.

If you think it's a beauty? Sign up! If you think it's a scam? Do as you wish! Personally I wouldn't use a term like scam on it. At least not without including words like ethics, proper, prudent and a few other choice ones.

Do I think it a scam? Who cares? But I do think it shows a serious problem with the way the AMA thinks. If this is the kind of solution they come up with for whatever problem it's intended to solve! You guys should run not walk to the nearest exit!

So you don't really know if the all or part of the member list was given to a third party. If the DVD was not published by the AMA then it is quite obvious that the list was given or sold to a third party. You have the opinion that the list was not given or sold, I am of the opinion the list was given or sold. Neither of us have any proof. The only thing I know for certain is that you are a lowlife who starts cussing when you feel that others do not share you opinion.

It is a proven fact that posting your real name and email address on usenet leads to a great deal of spam in your inbox.