What a shame

OOOhh, prove your point! How high school.
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com
Tue, 6 Jul 2004 19:33:42

own
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+0100

It was easy to predict. It's not like you've ever supported one of your statements before.

Sorry if you found that confusing. I'll keep future posts at a grade-school level to enhance your understanding.
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Proof please?
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com
Thu, 8 Jul 2004 00:56:04

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Grow up Paul!
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Careful. You'll bruise the fish.
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Don't have any, I see (sounds just like Klondyke!)
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com

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+0100

Too easy.
"Bush stood up in front of everyone and proclaimed that Iraq had tons of unaccounted for WMDs" Paul McIntosh
"All of the higher-ups in his administration had been saying it. There are plenty of quotes available from Ari and the rest." Paul McIntosh
"You are the only one who changes the subject when confronted with your own crap." Paul McIntosh
Feel free to substantiate any of your absurd claims.
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I entered a 100+ lines of quotes that you conveniently ignored when it showed you wrong.
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com

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+0100

Nonsense, cupcake. I showed you where your 'proof' was anything but, and you ran away screaming like a girl at a boy band concert, hands in the air, and wetting yourself down both legs.

Nonsense, of course. After you claimed 'Bush stood up in front of everyone and proclaimed that Iraq had tons of unaccounted for WMDs', you switched to 'All of the higher-ups in his administration had been saying it. There are plenty of quotes available from Ari and the rest'. When challenged to provide proof, you predictably produced one quote that mentions an estimated volume of WMD, and then surrounded it with a bunch of quotes that do no such thing in an effort to make 'ONE' look like 'PLENTY'.
I'm sure you spent a lot of time and effort to cut and paste those quotes from some website or other, but 'ONE' does not equal 'PLENTY'. Thus the 'yawn' followed by ample proof that the belief that Saddam had WMD was not held by Republicans alone. Me

Which neatly dodges your claims that:
a) "Bush stood up in front of everyone and proclaimed that Iraq had tons of unaccounted for WMDs"
b) "All of the higher-ups in his administration had been saying it. There are plenty of quotes available from Ari and the rest"
You presented your made-up hysterical rants as though President Bush personally attempted to mislead you, all the while ignoring what he actually said, and what the democrats have been saying for years.
And you still wonder why folks refer to your type as 'LIEberal'. Me
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Well, since you dozed off the first time...
For the dense among you (Klondyke and Jones) here is a great quote from someone fairly high up in the Bush administration:
5 Feb 2003 During his U.N. presentation, Secretary of State Colin Powell declares: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets."
Well, where are they?
Here is a great Bush series:
11 Oct 2000 During a debate at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, Presidential candidate George W Bush declares: "We don't know whether he's developing weapons of mass destruction.
28 Oct 2002 During a speech at the Riner Steinhoff Soccer Complex in Alamogordo, New Mexico, President George W Bush declares: "He's got weapons of mass destruction. This is a man who has used weapons of mass destruction."
And his buddy:
24 Feb 2001 In Cairo, Secretary of State Colin Powell declares: "He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."
5 Feb 2003 During his U.N. presentation, Secretary of State Colin Powell declares: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets."
Then, the truth:
30 May 2003 During a press conference, Lt. General James Conway, USMC declares: "It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered weapons... in some of the forward dispersal sites. Again, believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there... We were simply wrong."
Then THIS great piece of BS:
9 Jul 2003 White House spokesman Ari Fleischer somehow manages to say with a straight face: "Saddam Hussein had biological and chemical weapons that were unaccounted for that we're still confident we'll find. I think the burden is on those people who think he didn't have weapons of mass destruction to tell the world where they are... just because they haven't yet been found doesn't mean they didn't exist. The burden is on the critics to explain where the weapons of mass destruction are. If they think they were destroyed, the burden is on them to explain when he destroyed them and where he destroyed them."
Then, the final surrender:
16 May 2004 Secretary of State Colin Powell tells Meet the Press: "When I made that presentation in February 2003, it was based on the best information that the Central Intelligence Agency made available to me. We studied it carefully; we looked at the sourcing in the case of the mobile trucks and trains. There was multiple sourcing for that. Unfortunately, that multiple sourcing over time has turned out to be not accurate. And so I'm deeply disappointed... it turned out that the sourcing was inaccurate and wrong and in some cases, deliberately misleading. And for that, I am disappointed and I regret it."
And, here is the whole chronology that shows what they said pre and post 911:
Before 9-11 2 Dec 1999 During a debate in New Hampshire, Presidential candidate George W Bush declares: "If I found in any way, shape or form that he was developing weapons of mass destruction, I'd take 'em out. I'm surprised he's still there." Asked if that meant he would overthrow Saddam, Bush said he was only talking about "the weapons of mass destruction." 11 Feb 2000 Stumping in South Carolina, Presidential candidate George W Bush declares: "If we catch them developing weapons of mass destruction, there won't be any weapons of mass destruction left in Iraq -- if I'm the Commander-in-Chief." 11 Oct 2000 During a debate at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, Presidential candidate George W Bush declares: "We don't know whether he's developing weapons of mass destruction. He better not be, or there's going to be a consequence -- should I be the President." 22 Feb 2001 President George W Bush declares: "The Secretary of State is going to go listen to our allies as to how best to effect a policy, the primary goal of which will be to say to Saddam Hussein: we won't tolerate you developing weapons of mass destruction, and we expect you to leave your neighbors alone." 24 Feb 2001 In Cairo, Secretary of State Colin Powell declares: "He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors." 17 May 2001 State Department spokesman Richard Boucher declares: "We're working toward what will be a significant change in our approach to Iraq in the United Nations... The focus is on strengthening controls to prevent Iraq from rebuilding military capability in weapons of mass destruction, while facilitating a broader flow of goods to the civilian population of Iraq." 7 Aug 2001 President George W Bush declares: "He's been a menace forever, and we will do -- he needs to open his country up for inspection, so we can see whether or not he's developing weapons of mass destruction."
But shortly after September 11, 2001, the Bush administration (and Tony Blair, and several members of Congress) suddenly began telling everybody that Saddam Hussein definitely possessed weapons of mass destruction, and that those things constituted a clear and present danger against the United States:
After 9-11 Nov 2001 Pentagon official Richard Perle: "He has weapons of mass destruction. The lesser risk is in pre-emption. We've got to stop wishing away the problem." 11 Mar 2002 British Prime Minister Tony Blair declares: "The threat that Saddam Hussein poses is an issue in its own right, because the reason why the UN Security Council passed these resolutions was precisely because we know the threat that there is from the weapons of mass destruction that he has." 26 Aug 2002 Vice President Dick Cheney declares: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us." 4 Sep 2002 Senator Joseph Lieberman declares: "Every day Saddam remains in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons, and the development of nuclear weapons is a day of danger for the United States." 18 Sep 2002 Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells the House Armed Services Commitee: "[Saddam] has amassed large clandestine stocks of biological weapons... including anthrax and botulism toxin and possibly smallpox. His regime has amassed large clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons, including VX and sarin and mustard gas... [he] has at this moment stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons." 19 Sep 2002 Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld tells the Senate Armed Services Commitee: "There are a number of terrorist states pursuing weapons of mass destruction -- Iran, Libya, North Korea, Syria, just to name a few -- but no terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people than the regime of Saddam Hussein and Iraq." 24 Sep 2002 British Prime Minister Tony Blair declares: "His weapons of mass destruction program is active, detailed and growing. The policy of containment is not working. The weapons of mass destruction program is not shut down. It is up and running... The intelligence picture (the intelligence services) paint is one accumulated over the past four years. It is extensive, detailed and authoritative. It concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shia population; and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability." 7 Oct 2002 During a speech in Cincinnati, President George W Bush declares: "Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists." 28 Oct 2002 During a speech at the Riner Steinhoff Soccer Complex in Alamogordo, New Mexico, President George W Bush declares: "He's got weapons of mass destruction. This is a man who has used weapons of mass destruction." 28 Oct 2002 During a speech at the Wings Over the Rockies Air and Space Museum in Denver, President George W Bush declares: "It's a person who claims he has no weapons of mass destruction, in order to escape the dictums of the U.N. Security Council and the United Nations -- but he's got them. See, he'll lie. He'll deceive us. And he'll use them." 31 Oct 2002 During a speech at Northern State University in Aberdeen, South Dakota, President George W Bush declares: "This is a guy who's used weapons of mass destruction. He not only has them, he's used them." 1 Nov 2002 During a speech at the Pease International Tradeport Airport in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, President George W Bush declares: "Saddam Hussein is a man who has told the world he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, and yet he deceived the world. He's got them... We know he's got chemical weapons, probably has biological weapons." 2 Nov 2002 During a speech at the University of South Florida, President George W Bush declares: "He's a man who has told the world he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, yet he does." 2 Nov 2002 During a speech at the Cobb Galleria Centre in Atlanta, Georgia, President George W Bush declares: "He's a threat to America, he's a threat to our close friends and allies. He's a man who has said he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, but he's got them... Not only does he have weapons of mass destruction, but, incredibly enough, he has used weapons of mass destruction." 2 Nov 2002 During a speech at the Tri-Cities Regional Tn/Va Airport in Blountville, Tennessee, President George W Bush declares: "He told the world he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction -- 11 years ago he said that. He's got them... We know that this is a man who has chemical weapons, and we know he's used them." 3 Nov 2002 During a speech at the Illinois Police Academy in Springfield, Illinois, President George W Bush declares: "Saddam Hussein is a threat to America. He's a threat to our friends. He's a man who said he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, yet he has them. He's a man that not only has weapons of mass destruction, he's used them." 3 Nov 2002 During a speech at the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul, Minnesota, President George W Bush declares: "This is a man who not only has got chemical weapons, I want you to remind your friends and neighbors, that he has used chemical weapons." 3 Nov 2002 During a speech at the Sioux Falls Convention Center in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, President George W Bush declares: "Saddam Hussein is a man who told the world he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, but he's got them... It's a man who not only has chemical weapons, but he's used chemical weapons against some of his neighbors." 4 Nov 2002 During a speech at the Family Center in St. Louis, Missouri, President George W Bush declares: "He said he wouldn't have chemical weapons; he's got them." 4 Nov 2002 During a speech at the Northwest Arkansas Regional Airport, President George W Bush declares: "This is a man who told the world he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, promised he wouldn't have them. He's got them... He said he wouldn't have chemical weapons, he's got them." 4 Nov 2002 During a speech at Southern Methodist University, President George W Bush declares: "He has weapons of mass destruction. At one time we know for certain he was close to having a nuclear weapon. Imagine Saddam Hussein with a nuclear weapon. Not only has he got chemical weapons, but I want you to remember, he's used chemical weapons." 7 Nov 2002 During a press conference, President George W Bush declares: "Some people say, 'Oh, we must leave Saddam alone, otherwise, if we did something against him, he might attack us.' Well, if we don't do something he might attack us, and he might attack us with a more serious weapon. The man is a threat... He's a threat because he is dealing with al Qaeda... And we're going to deal with him." 13 Nov 2002 Condoleezza Rice declares: "He already has other weapons of mass destruction. But a nuclear weapon, two or three our four years from now -- I don't care where it is, when it is -- to have that happen in a volatile region like the Middle East is most certainly a future that we cannot tolerate." 2 Dec 2002 White House spokesman Ari Fleischer declares: "If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world." 9 Jan 2003 White House spokesman Ari Fleischer declares: "We know for a fact there are weapons there." 10 Jan 2003 Senate majority leader Bill Frist tells Capital Report: "I am absolutely convinced, based on the information that's been given to me, that the weapon of mass destruction which can kill more people than an atomic bomb -- that is, biological weapons -- is in the hands of the leadership of Iraq." 20 Jan 2003 Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declares: "Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons... His regime is paying a high price to pursue weapons of mass destruction -- giving up billions of dollars in oil revenue. His regime has large, unaccounted for stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons -- including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas; anthrax, botulism, and possibly smallpox -- and he has an active program to acquire and develop nuclear weapons." 20 Jan 2003 Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declares: "It should be noted that biological weapons -- which Iraq and North Korea both possess -- can be as deadly, and arguably more immediate a danger -- because they are simpler and cheaper and deliver, and are even more readily transferred to terrorist networks than are nuclear weapons." 22 Jan 2003 Senate majority leader Bill Frist tells The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer: "What is unique about Iraq compared to, I would argue, any other country in the world, in this juncture, is the exhaustion of diplomacy thus far, and, No. 2, this intersection of weapons of mass destruction."
--


Paul McIntosh
http://www.rc-bearings.com
  Click to see the full signature.
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+0100

The difference between 'estimate' and 'statement of fact' continues to elude you.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. My guess is Syria.

Really impressive, Paul. You're certainly the cut-n-paste wiz. However, I fail to see exactly where any of this proves that President Bush lied, or claimed Iraq 'had tons of WMD'. As you know, WMD have been found in Iraq. That Saddam managed to fool the UN as well as every intelligence organization in the world is not President Bushs' fault.
Oh, and repeated quotes in a post only serve as bulk text to throw about. It does not make them more-valuable to your untenable position.
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Well, what about the rest of the quotes where USMC General says there are none, and where the Secretary of state just about admits to lying? They are all there. Hundreds of them. All of them saying how Saddam has all these weapons and then when NONE are found (even the trailers supposedly to make the WMDs turn out to be hydrogen generators), the tune changes again. Powell showed the UN satellite photos of the supposed WMD plants as evidence. Nothing was ever found. Not a trace!
This is all a big republican joke. They will lose the election no matter WHO runs against them!
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com
Thu, 8 Jul 2004 17:54:11

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+0100

I don't see where anyone 'just about admits to lying', Paul. At best, they admit they were taken in by the same faulty intelligence that the UN, former president Slick Willie, current presidential-wishful Waffles Kerry, and the entire rest of the world were fooled by.
Excuse me for being unclear, Paul. I specificly asked what, exactly, in your cut-n-paste frenzy, addressed your claim that (and I quote) "Bush stood up in front of everyone and proclaimed that Iraq had tons of unaccounted for WMDs" Paul McIntosh

Nonsense, of course. WMD were found, and continue to be found. I suppose you wish to quibble over whether or not 'enough' were found.

Care to place a wager? How much can you afford to lose?
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He has been shown to be wrong all along. Your blind allegiance is only mildly amusing.
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com
Thu, 8 Jul 2004 23:48:51

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+0100

The distinction between 'Mistaken' and 'Lying' continues to elude you.
When I say," Paul can't possibly be as stupid as he appears to be", I am mistaken. When former president Clinton says, under oath, "I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinski", he was lying.
HTH
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30 May 2003 During a press conference, Lt. General James Conway, USMC declares: "It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered weapons... in some of the forward dispersal sites. Again, believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there... We were simply wrong."
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com
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+0100

Care to explain how this supports your absurd claim that President Bush lied?
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President George W Bush declares: "He's got weapons of mass destruction. This is a man who has used weapons of mass destruction."
Lt. General James Conway, USMC declares: "We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there... We were simply wrong."
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com
Thu, 8 Jul 2004 23:51:06

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+0100

Where is the lie? Where is the mistake, even? WMD have been found in Iraq, and it is common knowledge that Saddam used WMD against Iran, and against his own people.

Subsequent events have shown that the good General spoke too soon.
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9 Jul 2003 White House spokesman Ari Fleischer somehow manages to say with a straight face: "Saddam Hussein had biological and chemical weapons that were unaccounted for that we're still confident we'll find. I think the burden is on those people who think he didn't have weapons of mass destruction to tell the world where they are... just because they haven't yet been found doesn't mean they didn't exist. The burden is on the critics to explain where the weapons of mass destruction are."
What the F**k is he saying??? Everyone who didn't believe that Saddam had WMDs should tell Ari where the WMDs are???
-- Paul McIntosh http://www.rc-bearings.com
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