new to the trade but having fun

wrote:


Are you using propane or natural gas? I wouldnt use sand myself because we are talking about some pretty high temps that you are trying to contain. Fire brick is cheap, I made one using all broken bricks I got free from a coal fired steam heat facility, filled in the gaps with refractory. It worked for years with no problems. I posted some pics of my newly built atmospheric forge. Not pretty but it works (and doesnt take electricity to run, important since I live off the grid). I just built a second one and welded to the first to double the length :/ I just posted some pics of it (and a few other things I made) : http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i ξAM2rZs1bM27kY Bob
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Forger wrote:

Very nice work Bob.
Steve
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
agreed i like his desighn alot better of what i could tell i should have waited and looked around longer than i did but i guess i'm too anxiouse to get it going... lol, the forge is already welded together at this point though so i guess i could take firebrick and bust it up till basicly powder and pore it in like i was going to do with the sand if i can get my hands on some koawool (like greyangel suggested) maybe i can apply a lil more of the furnace cement to stick the wool in... man i was hoping to build this out of junk i had lieing around, as i said before i'm very resticted on cash so it may be a while before i can let you guys know how it worked.

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Hey its your design, just take the advise from others into consideration as you create it. Here are some thoughts on ways of doing this. I was once in a machine shop near the Canadian border. As I was talking to the owner about knives I looked around at his mills and lathes. Then I seen this huge 100lb Little Giant. Talk about the *wow* effect. Anyways, he wouldnt sell it, it was the only thing that would draw out tines (or maybe shares?) for some local farmer, one time a year. Oh well... "how do you heat them?" I asked, not seeing a forge or oven. He points to the floor at a heap of welding fire bricks, with a weedburner wedged into them. He had rejetted for natural gas, but that was it. Another thought is to check with your local ceramic places, the ones where people make stuff, and then have it fired. They might have some pieces of broken "shelf". Thats high temp and should make a good floor to your forge. Just so you know though, the lite brick used in those ceramic furnaces disintegrate very fast in forge work using flux. Might be OK for the walls though. Good luck and if you can put some pics on your site of what the forge looks like now, in the early stages, you might get some other ideas here if we know what your working with.
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
ok i just updated my site they are on page 7
http://home.earthlink.net/~metal-gear/id1.html

to
powder
on
the
of
it
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

<snipped good stuff>

<snipped good stuff here too;>
It takes me forty forevers to get around to seeing the pictures etc but I check them all out and sometimes loose the thread where I want to comment on them too. :/
Mostly just wanted to say "we ain't going anywhere:)" do what you can, when you can, somebody'll be here eager to see your product. I know I am. :)
The more unusual their hobby the more a person needs a newsgroup. ;)
Alvin in AZ
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
found a good way to get my regulator, i was asking the wrong people when i went to buy one, they kept talking about water columns and i ask for psi so i hit a fourth local gas co. and the guys there knew what i needed... instead of $40-$50 i got this one for $23 and from what i've read i think it will do perfectly it is 0 - 10 psi

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
oops i forgot to post a pic of the type i got
http://trellixff1.business.earthlink.net/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth ¬tual&linkpath=http://home.earthlink.net/~metal
-gear/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_1583.jpg&target=tlx_new

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
dangit
http://trellixff1.business.earthlink.net/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth ¬tual&linkpath=http://home.earthlink.net/~metal-gear/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_1583.jpg&target=tlx_new

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
sry bout that i had a lil problem with the three mile link...

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2003-08-22/labNotes2/body.html describes a way of making your own insulating refractory from perlite and furnace cement.
The big advantage of this (or Kaowool, Durablanket, etc) is that it has lots lower thermal mass than the firebrick, so it heats up quickly. Also, the firebrick you generally find is for boilers, and doesn't really insulate that well. Its purpose is to retain heat for periods when the boiler is off (*not* a great insulator).
If you do bust up firebrick, do it outside, with the wind at your back. You really don't want to get the powder in your lungs.
Steve
me wrote:

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
good read thx, judgeing by what he said i think i'll let this layer dry then add more till i gradualy thicken it up like he said to appx 1.5 inches and try that... unless i find some of the other materials local, don't have alot of spare time to look prob end up useing the cement ( glad you posted that i was going for about 3/4" wayyyy too thin thx again

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The plans for the "Sandia forge" from ABANA only have 1" insulating board. The forges I've seen which only had 1" insulation also have blued steel on the outside. I like thicker insulation, I agree that 3/4 is too thin.
Steve
me wrote:

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
A good source for strong and high temp bricks is the Wood stove place. The heavy duty type they use is great! Use it as a floor as it won't eat up. You can saw it with a saw, but it is a little tough on the saw.
The normal kiln stuff is like balsa wood and this is like oak in strength, has holes and pockets. It isolates the outside steel from the hot flames and IR from the coals.
It is shipped to the wood stove houses to replace burnt out and used up - remember the bottom is scooped with a metal shovel to get the ashes out.
Martin
--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
still workin on the burner... i thought this would be the easy part but it's not, can get it to mix just right and i've tried making a mongo style but... the only refrac. i can find is furnace cement & i'm learning to hate that stuff, so the optional addition they mentioned in directions was now obsolete, the burner does pretty good in open air, but in forge it pores blue flame out the doors and in or out it will burn a few sec then ignite back at the jet... choke it down it goes back to tip but with in seconds it's backlit to the air induction again...
signed Frustrated in Carolina lol
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
me wrote:

You're running out of air, that's why the combustion front is back-crawling on you. Figure out a way to get more combustion air into the box. Just what exactly are you using for fuel, 'gas' covers a lot of territory. You might have and exhaust flow problem. The air in the box is consumed and heated, but is restricted from leaving, which gets you a reducing environment at above ambient pressure and nothing can get in to feed the fuel. Normally-aspirated forges can be tricky in the firebox, and unless you have a blower somewhere in the mix, that's what you have. Natural Gas and Propane forges work because more heat is poured into the box than can escape, so the temp rises over time. A blue flame runs about 4500 degrees at the 'best combustion' mix, but the box will only make 3000 max. Think jet engine, it's just a piece of pipe with a fan in it and a burner, but the shape of that pipe gets us around the world at 600 mph. Hot gasses take up more volume than cold ones, so if you constrict the exhaust, the pressure goes up. Look at your exhaust setup first.
Charly
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
i'm using propane, the weird part is that i can slide the choke open till i get apparently too much air because the flame will leap off burner tip and ignite, and even when it's in open air i have the same problems i have when burner is placed inside forge, the jet tip i drilled a 1/16 hole... i'm thinking this may have been too large, at this point i'm grasping at straws...

it's
but...
that
ignite
back-crawling on

might have

is
ambient
forges can

mix,
heat is

flame
only make

a
Hot
exhaust, the

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I'm thinking you might be right, 1/16" is pretty darn big jet.
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In Colorado (at 5000 feet) I used to use a #58 drill, which is 0.042" diameter. Quite a bit smaller than 1/16". Maybe a little larger for lower elevations, but 1/16 is too big.
Steve
me wrote:

Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
me wrote:

Okay, flame separation is too much gas pressure. A .063 jet isn't out of the question, but you'll need to tune it a bit. first off, give up the idea of moving the burner in and out, mount it and be done. The 'housing' for the burner (I'm assuming an atmospheric, ie non-supercharged, burner) needs to help feed air to the burner so that there's no possibility of inflow air constriction. It's all about air pressure differential, similar to a carburator. You control the mixture with the air valve AND the line pressure. Mount the burner, then open the air all the way. Start with a three to five PSI gas line pressure and light the burner with a wad of newspaper. Observe the flame for color, burner face retention, and 'steadieness'. Add gas by increasing the line pressure until the flame disconnects from the buner face. This will be the max pressure for this burner. Observe the flame for color and if too lean, (orange-red weak looking flame) cut back on the air until you get the blue fiend. If too rich, (fat yellow 'lighter' looking flame, cut back the line pressure until the fiend comes out of hiding... new max line pressure. It's tuned. Let it run for about twenty minutes and see how hot it gets the box. Remember that hot burner exhaust has to go somewhere, build a chimney on the back of the box. If the box doesn't make it to bright yellow in a half hour, you need more fire, add another burner and increase the chimney throat area by 50% to handle the increased exhaust. These are 'internal engineer ballpark figures', don't take them as Gospel, but they 'feel right'. Use a long feed line the first time you light it off. Kindling first, then air, then fuel. Mine uses city gas with a blower, you never want to get the order of starting wromg, backfire, flameout, hung start, just like an early jet engine. Don't turn your back on it until the inside of the box gets to autoignite temp.
Let me know if you keep your eyebrows...
Charly
Add pictures here
βœ–
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.