Hardinge CHNC turret woes

I'm trying to get the turret working on a hardinge CHNC with a new control. Its drove me to drink, I just said F%^& it and grabbed a cold one.
I can't get the turret to land on the locating lock pins reliably. It wants to go just a bit to far in rotation.
The turret on this machine has two air devices. The turret index lifts the turret and an air motor rotates it. There is also a turret stop solenoid that engages a rod against a ratchet stop.
There are turret down (magnetic prox switch) and an eight position absolute encoder for sensors.
First and foremost I'd like to know how the stop indexing logic is supposed to work on the original machine. I'm finding that the turret stop solenoid won't engage with the turret running, is this normal? I have to stop the turret indexing(short of the locating lock pins), engage the stop solenoid, and then try to bump the turret index up against the ratchet stop. This goes past the locating stop pins when driven against it hard(lot of force here). Once, I jammed the turret stop solenoid and had to take the whole thing apart to free it up.
I'm guessing at this point. I'm thinking of trying a new (longer) ratchet stop rod, the whole cross slide has to be dissembled to get at this. Then I'll find out this ain't it.
If anybody know a pro hardinge repairman I can call, I'll gladly pay for good advice.
--
<()> An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
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On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:10:12 -0500, "Karl Townsend"

I was a service eng. for Hardinge for a number of years and worked on that style turret a lot. I have the original prints (logic). If you need a copy let me know.
Regards Daveb
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Karl,
Sounds like the AHC turret, is this an older CHNC? It has been many years since I have worked on or been near a CHNC or AHC. Great machines for what they were made for but there was some maintenance involved and one of them was for the exact symptom you are describing.
There use to be a small inline combo air filter on these machines that we use to have to clean out from time to time to fix what you are describing. On most AHC, CHNC machines if I remember correctly it was located behind the turret at or near the end of the Z axis. If not follow the air lines and you should come across it.
Tom
Karl Townsend wrote:

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message

control.
wants
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supposed
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I think there are a couple solenoid valves on the operators side of X... I had a problem with one sticking and it would either not stop or jam the turret Call Hardinge ... I think they still give free advice.
Good luck Tom
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On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 17:10:12 -0500, "Karl Townsend"

That air cushion should be adjusted so it slows the air motor just before the tool in coincidence signal.then the engage stop pin signal.
This out of memory , the air cushion has an o -ring and about 8-10 turns of adjustment , correct? If you turn it all the way in the turret index come up on the short side as you turn it out it allows more stroke.
I left Hardinge in about 86 so been awhile, Im looking over the logic. The machine was built with both an AB control and GN6.
Let me know if you want the prints in any case.
Good Luck Daveb
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The prints would certainly help. I'll send you an email.

?????? I'm not finding any of this. There's an exhaust restrictor to set the speed of turret rotation. I've found no way to have it slow down as it appoaches target. (Maybe this is what I'm missing) I'll re-read the manual in the morning looking for this.
Karl
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I guess i won't email you after all. No address, I understand. My email is snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net If you'd rather fax or snail mail, email me a message. Are you available for a phone call after I've looked into everything I can?
--
<()> An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
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On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:44:33 -0500, "Karl Townsend"

Dave B Debco Machinery snipped-for-privacy@dslextreme.com 714-334-4261 cell)
Daveb
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There is a restrictor in the very back of the slide, but all this does is set the speed of the index. If it's going to fast the stop will not catch in time. But my other post should fix it.
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There is an adjustment for that turret stop (I've done that many times). On mine there is a lock setscrew right on the lower right of the carriage. Loosen it, on the right cover there should be a little plastic plug (after 1992) others you have to take off the cover. If it has the plug pry it out & use an allen wrench to adj the turret stop. Adj this until you see the turret come straight down (no movement to the left or right as it's coming down.
That should fix it. If not there is a small magnet that tells the control where it is. It's under the flat cover right behind the turret. You can loosen it & turn it a few thousandths. (don't think you will need to mess with this).
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thanks, I'll start looking shortly.

I've had this loose and tried all over (this is how to tell the turret when to stop). Are there any "correct" starting points?
Karl
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This I use to adj the air motor speed. That damn slotted head adj is critical (way to course) .010 of a turn is a lot. That on mine 1992 is behind a square cover on the back (4 allen screws). Also if you change the air pressure to the machine it will change the speed.
So once you get it all set, don't change it. Hardinge says 2 seconds to index one place. I have learned you can go a little faster than that. If this helps you can send me that cold one <Grin>.
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Thanks for the help. I've found if I try to make the turret go that slow, it won't pop up and start turning at all. I'll see how slow I can make it run. This machine has sat, waiting for a new control, for two years. I'll run oil real rich with the air for a while and cycle everything a bunch to settle things down. (On the plus side this a factory refurbished machine, its like brand new)
Thanks for the help, I'll be glad to send you a cold one. Better yet, stop by for a dozen.
Karl
P.S. My son had a wheel come off towing a car home last night, I was out half the night helping. Dangerous stuff, fixing a truck on the side of a busy highway at night. I'm taking the day off on this problem
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Air pressure to the machine should be 80-85 PSI, mine are set at 80.

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In our experience, the little claw arm adjusted from the back side of the x slide, gets a bit worn and allows the turret to miss the stop position. It can be shimmed to a different catch-length from the base to make up for years' worth of wear. It is a common issue with 80's CHNC series machines - and it is a pain in the butt to get right, as there are several things going on at once, and all interact with each other quite delicately.
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Steven Haerr
CNCTRADER CORPORATION
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Air motors SUCK for indexing.
--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
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Yep! But if you just happen to index a tool into a bar sticking out of the collet it don't hurt the turret, it just stops <Grin>.
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Ya...but SURELY someone wouldn't do that.....heheh.
--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
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The width, depth and breadth of knowledge in this news group and the willingness to share is amazing.
On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 10:01:29 -0700, "Steven Haerr - CNCTrader

Unka George (George McDuffee)
There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations; even a democrat like myself must admit this. But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy, for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch," but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.
Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.
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