quick poll - american cars

Jon isn't interested in the real world. He lives in press release world.

My last American vehicle was a Jeep Comanche. For the first 2 years it was a real nice truck. It seemed it had a self destruct mode when the hobbs meter read exactly 2 years and one second. And it wasn't a quick painless death either. A new piece of the truck would fail on a pretty consistent basis. Over the next year, out of warranty of course, it probably cost me an average of $300 a month in random repairs. Some of the failures I can remember: The rear view mirror just fell off the windshield at a stop light, the gear shift knob broke off in my hand, both window cranks broke. It was a

4 speed and did not have a cable for the clutch. Instead it was a hydraulic unit that would blow seals about every other month. That meant speed shifting while under way and doing powerstarts at red lights. The starter failed, that meant parking on hills so I can do a rolling start. Money was tight then so after a month of parking at the top of a hill it became a difficult habit to shake. One time the carburetor coughed some fire and some rubber ignited, I was in my driveway blowing on the flames to no avail. Luckily there was a Builders Emporium across the street, I sprinted into the store grabbing a fire extinguisher and tossing my wallet at the cashier. Shortly after that the clutch imploded on in itself and after that repair it just didn't seem right. I had to go to a Toyota dealer to pick up a part for my wife's Toyota, and a salesman said "Hey buddy wanna trade that truck in?" I didn't even have to think about it. I've been stuck on Toyota's ever since. My current truck is a '98 Tacoma and at 190,000+ it's just getting broken in. Nope, I won't buy the junk passed off as vehicles that Detroit is responsible for in this lifetime.

The King over vapor. LOL

This is something that might have a shot and they need 450 Million dollars to do it, not 40 billion.

least they have a geoup of industry pro's involved.

JC

I know people who've had nothing but troubles with Toyota's and will never buy another.

I've been driving American cars for thirty years and have had only a couple problems which weren't related to normal wear and tear in all that time. The problems were with electrical harness routing on a 95 Ranger, were fixed under warranty, and they never returned.

I work with a guy who swears Honda's far outlast American cars despite his high mileage vehicles being in the shop every other month for wheel bearings, cv joints, tie rod ends, ball joints, struts, slipping transmissions, leaky seals, etc. Sure doesn't sound like they outlast American cars to me.

====== FYI

------ Under Restructuring, GM To Build More Cars Overseas By Peter Whoriskey Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, May 8, 2009

The U.S. government is pouring billions into General Motors in hopes of reviving the domestic economy, but when the automaker completes its restructuring plan, many of the company's new jobs will be filled by workers overseas.

According to an outline the company has been sharing privately with Washington legislators, the number of cars that GM sells in the United States and builds in Mexico, China and South Korea will roughly double.

"It's an almost impossible dilemma," said former labor secretary Robert B. Reich, now a professor at the University of California-Berkeley. "GM is a global company -- so for that matter is AIG and the biggest Wall Street banks. That means that bailing them out doesn't necessarily redound to the benefit of the U.S. or American workers. {comment: then why do it with their taxes?}

"The bottom line is GM would rather pay $2 an hour -- and it's a slippery slope downward," said Alan Reuther, the UAW's legislative director. "If GM is going to be getting government assistance, they ought to be maintaining their manufacturing footprint in the U.S. rather than going off to China, Mexico and South Korea."

Labor costs in those countries are far lower. While paying a U.S. autoworker with benefits costs about $54 an hour, a South Korean worker earns about $22 an hour, a Mexican worker earns less than $10 an hour and some Chinese workers can earn as little as $3 an hour, industry sources said. {comment: and the South Korean, Mexican, and Chinese workers pay 0$ US taxes, and the profits from these operations are not taxed until these "remitted" back to the US which is never. See "transfer pricing"}

The U.S. government has loaned GM $15.4 billion. But billions more are expected to be invested, and under the current plan, it will be the majority owner of the company. {comment" when I have a gun in my ribs it ain't investing, its robbery or extortion.}

"If you are shutting down plants in this country, U.S. tax dollars should not go for building plants in other countries," said Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), who was among those who met with Henderson.

But company officials and industry analysts have long argued that, even putting aside the issue of labor costs, it makes logistical sense to build some cars in other countries, even if they are destined for sale in the United States.

------

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

I guess it's where you live and who you talk to. I've heard nothing but good things about both Honda and Toyota. Statistacally speaking I would venture to guess there are more Honda's and Toyota's still running economically after 200,000 miles than there are American vehicles. The Japanese builders listened to Deming after WWII, Detroit didn't. If it was 1970 I would rather buy a Camaro or Mustang or GTO or Cuda or Coronet or 442. But it isn't. The best vehicles are built buy companies who implement Demings principles. End of story. Full stop.

The problem with Honda, Toyota, Acura, etc. is that the cylinder head has so little material in it that if you experience even a momentary overheating problem such as would be caused with say a fan switch failure you're looking at a very expensive cylinder head rebuild. Other manufactures have more material in the head and their heads can often handle a brief over heating situation... not so with Honda, Toyota or Acura. This FACT makes automotive repair shops tons of money.

Do Honda, Toyota and Acura have advantages... certainly they do. They have a much better fit and finish and I believe they hold their suppliers to tighter tolerances.

I've had two Honda's. Both had cylinder head problems. I'd never buy another Honda again.

A classic Saab 900 Turbo is a much better designed and engineered car. The classic Saab 900 uses double wishbone for it's front suspension. The only major weakness of the Saab 900 Turbo is a gearbox that can't handle over 300 hp without being babied. The engine can easily be made to output 450 hp. It's a far better car in every possible way compared to a Honda... better ride, better handling, more room, better engine, etc.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

Sure, but when I buy a car, it is 2 or 3 years old. I drive too much to take the hit on a new car. After a model has been out 2 or 3 years, lemon issues are fairly well identified.

Wes

Well, now you know gummer, who supports your plan for revolution, hasn't paid any property taxes at all for about a decade, and has managed to dodge various tax liens going back *25 years*

His oldest property tax lien is from '92, when the bill was a crippling 200! bucks a year. But wait, it gets

*worse*! Now his annual property tax is up to almost *400* bucks! I know, it's hard to imagine how any government could be so burdensome! After (not) paying those exorbitant taxes, it's no wonder that gummy is ready to revolt, angry and ungrateful for the measly nearing-a-million in handouts his fandamily has received so far. And darned if you weren't exactly right about his yearly tax bills outpacing his income. Keep up the good work!

BTW, when you start your revolution, shouldn't the first order of business be to take out the leeches? Don't tell me, you're here undercover doing advance reconnaissance? Don't forget, gummy's a tricky devil, he might try the ol' 327 Olive thing to fool you. Guess I don't need to explain to a smart fella' like you though, eh?

Wayne

Just amazing the people you will do business with. Tom Brewer, this loser.... what's next a CADCAM system supported by John Carroll?

Clues... they=92re everywhere.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

Odd..Id say the same thing to people who (apparently) deal with you.

Shrug...you take the good with the bad. Most folks are good. Some just need a bit of prodding.

Tom and John Carroll are excellent individuals btw. Both know their shit and are very reliable and reputable.

Shrug. Neither of them have much tolerence. Shrug again.

Gunner

Wrong, yet again.

There is a reason you struggle so hard to survive.

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

The Opinion of Jon Banquer is noted with amused interest.

Whenever I contract with Gunner to do a job he gets paid as soon as he hands me an invoice if the job is for me personally, if professionally and I am directly involved I see that he is paid within 24 hours unless different payment terms are agreed on when he bids the job.

One job he did about 1-1/2 years ago was a big job for him. He was preparing a bill and he came to me a little concerned, the bill was in the good 5 figure range. Gunner told me about it and I got a little upset with him because I told him to bill each week and he let it go for a couple weeks without billing. He hadn't realized it would be so high and he offered to reduce it, I refused his offer. I refused it because I didn't feel it was fair to him, it wasn't the price agreed upon and I couldn't have done better had I gone somewhere else.

Gunner you can correct me if I remember things differently than you.

Tom

I have done business with John Carroll, knows his shit, firm, fair and pays promptly.

Four things I am sure people don't say about you Jon.

Tom

It's not an opinion. It's FACT.

Tom Brewer's a proven liar many times over and so is John Carroll.

In addition, John Carroll has the worst record of anyone I know of in the CADCAM business. No CADCAM company would touch John Carroll with a ten-foot pole. John Carroll failed with Vero Software, with Missler / Top Solid and with Mecsoft / Visual Mill. No one in these companies that I have talked with has any respect at all for a liar like John Carroll. Keep in mind, Mark that John Carroll has admitted that he tried to hire me and I've said I turned him down cold. I never gave it more than a seconds thought. Do you think I'd have been better off working for a loser like John Carroll or who I work for now. ;>)

Jon Banquer San Diego, CA

Funny Jon, I have asked you numerous times over the years to post just ONE example and you have yet to post one instance that supports your accusation.

Let me try again;

Jon,

Please post one example supports your accusation.

Tom

Absolutely correct. You have been a jewel to work for. and in fact..are a very nice and more importantly....a very intelligent gentleman.

My respects indeed!

Gunner