Smoking in the MachineShop

New York state has a policy of no smoking in any business or public place. outside must be I think 60 feet away from any entrance. You get 2 ten min brake per 8 hr shift that is it. If the smokers smoke in the shop and someone blows them in to the Health dept they will actually come and investigate. If they find evidence, butts or ashes in the workplace first offence is a written warning. After that it is fines to the employer. The old tyrant Yugoslavian that I used to work for always said that if you smoked and drank coffee you were worth half as much. RR

Ill bet its illegal to smoke in bars too. Like here in California. Only thing is..I dont have any problem finding an ashtray in most bars..they are usually stacked under the No Smoking signs.

Id hate to be the no smoking enforcer that tried to make the Oriental shops stop smoking.

Dunhills and 555 brand smokes with the occasional Marlburo filled ashtrays on all the machines here in Rob Reiner No Smokeing So. California

Gunner

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown

"Haaken Hveem" wrote in news:Ba2Zd.1855$ snipped-for-privacy@news2.e.nsc.no:

Oh pulease. Think about what you just typed. While yer at it tell them to loose weight. Geesh.

Or are you just trollin like I am? Or am I?

Bing

Thanks Charlie. Words of wisdom to say the least. I am still looking of a way to handle small conflict and still remain in that state. Maybe I am thinking of that state of euphoria.

J.

I have a feeling that you are too nice of a guy. You want everyone to like you. I have that same problem. I believe that Mr. Aesop had a tale that covered this affliction of ours.

Our shop is non-smoking. There is no smoking inside the building, in the foyer or in the washrooms. My experience with smokers is that any half measures just don't work. Someone likened it to having a no-pissing end of a swimming pool. Many smokers just don't "get it," or maybe the addiction is so strong that it affects their ability to accurately perceive the effect that smoking has on others. Half measures fail pretty quickly.

Everyone here gets a 15 minute break in the morning, 1/2 hour for lunch and another 15 minute break in the afternoon. If you are a smoker, then that's the time when you can smoke. But it has got to be outside the building. It doesn't matter if the temperature is 20 below, if it's raining or if there's two feet of snow on the ground: Smokers have to go outside. Half measures don't work, if you take pity on them and let them back in, then you've just let that camel's nose in under the tent.

I'm a former smoker who has become one of those objectionable non-smoker who positively hates the stench of a cigarette. Fortunately for me, my wife - another ex-smoker - is a tyrant when it comes to things like this. If anyone dared to light up a cigarette inside the building she'd be on them like a lightening bolt.

As for saying that smokers are any less productive than non-smokers as some people on this thread have claimed. I don't agree. If I had to place a bet on it, I'd guess that it's really the other way around. At least that's been my experience.

It's not about productivity, at least not directly. It's about making the work environment a work environment and not some platform for debate. And right now it sounds like you've got a mutiny on your hands.

Good luck.

I see that less real involvement in the shop allows for more accomplished at the front of the building. Once again allowing more and more liberties to accumulate as long as the clock isn't losing time.

That is to hard to tell in my opinion. How does one know if said person would be working any faster or harder is they were or were not smoking at the time. I am convinced in this respect we are dealing with speculation. Then again what do I know. I have never smoked :)

There is no debate in the shop as the conversions at break time are always the same if that is close to what you mean. There are no real feeling of hatred present. More like a situation of discomfort that changes things a bit. I hope to avoid a mutiny.

Thanks.

J.

A fellow cabal member had a great idea, why not make the non-smokers stand outside in the interest of fairness and tolerence?? Why do the smokers have to always go outside??

The carrot and the whip. Hmmm...Big Frank will love me when I adorn his HOG(isn't that what they call a Harley) with whips:) This is a tough crowd I am talking about here. Rule number one is there are no rules. I'd have to start out with a whole new crew but all in all everything works. Mutiny would occur when there became a shop manual. (I'm trying to tell myself this is not as bit an issue as it appears.)

Mebbe you can provide a portable ducting/hood system (like w/ clothes dryer duct), so the addicts can smoke while they work.

Really might not be all that expensive to rig up, w/ Home Depot-type duct work shit and a Grainger blower. Yeah, mebbe w/ a li'l beanie cap that spins whilst they puff.

But man, what an effing thread! Politics, bruhs, politics!

That is an option I am considering and seems like a very economical way to go.

See what happens when everyone steps outside to smoke? You might meet anyone out here. :)

Proto

Renting floor space is by the sq foot.

So! It doesn't cost any more to have one shop big ;or two shops 1/2 the size. Put the smokers in one and the nonsmokers in another.

Regards,

Stan-

You are an exception not the rule. Statistically smokers have more colds, flus, allergies and respiratory infections. A simple biological fact. Everyone knows a smoker who brags about a doctor telling them they have the heart and lungs of a 19 year old even though they smoke 2 packs a day. How can you argue with them?

ked in a place where the owner had a vibratory deburring machine and a

That's gfunny, thought of putting the tumbler in the shithouse at my last shop, guess somebody would be talkn bout me then.

Anyway: First, if someone is going to quit, screw them, you don't need them, whatever you think. No one is irreplaceable. No one. NO ONE.

Usually, in the course of the work day, there is a spot to squeak out a butt OUTSIDE in a couple of minutes. My stuff has historically been short cycle[30-60 sec] small to mid run[50-100 pcsat a time] parts. I expect my guys to kick ass while the machine is running, that 100 pcs is done in an hour, and you are tapping them on the fly kinda stuff. If, AFTER THE RUN IS DONE they want to sneak out for a butt, I am ok with it, as long as they are MAKING ME MONEY. Usually it goes like this: Hey, I'm done with those, what's next, I gonna grab a butt. So what?

Second, I have never allowed ANYONE to smoke in my shop, drives me nuts, its all I will smell for a day. Long before it was illegal.

Third, I have alway been a flexible, no timeclock kinda guy, so mostly my guys haven't taken 'breaks' , but 10 mins twice a day is the law, that's all they get. Technically that is including going to the can! If a guy can't make it an hour without a butt, he is friggin useless, dump his ass.

In the end, it comes down to ARE THEY MAKING YOU MONEY? If they are, and domestic harmony is the only problem, find a way around. Hell, you cannot fly oon an airplane if you cna't make it 3 hours without a smoke, and you pay for the honor. You are paying them, you make the rules.

As a matter of fact it is.

I've never been in a bar where people were smoking illigally, but I don't frequent the bars.

Regards,

Robin

This is correct its the law. You might be surprised. No one will quit over their smoking habit. In a way you are doing them a favor.

My shop is the same (a pretty good description, actually), but I tell my guys that the only thing we can do as a nation to compete in the world market is becoming more efficient. In China, I've been told, machine operators make about $8 per 12 hour shift and works 6 days a week, and it's a cushy job, by their standards. It's a world market we're in, like it or not.

Bill Smith

Proto:

Well I think you can see from the responses so far (Sunday 8:00 PM), that smoking in the shop can be quite the contentious issue.

That probably means your guys tend to be fair and take responsibility for their own actions. If that is true, you might ask the smokers if they think it is fair to the non-smokers that they take extra time to smoke. Perhaps you could ask the smokers to smoke during the regular breaks everyone is entitled to or come in early, or stay late, (off the clock), to equal the time put in by the non-smokers.

-- BottleBob

in a machine shop it's not the smoke. There's plenty of air in most shops and you don't need to get all kissy-close to other guys. It's all the other filthy stinking detritus which they will *not* take care of, guaranteed.

Robin, I think you have posted the solution to Proto's problem as it stands. He is basically forced to tell everyone there that each is responsible for his/ her own work and hopefully elicit the cooperation of his shop. Heavy-handedness only breeds fear and resentment; a shop which has a good co-operative atmosphere has a greater potential for accomplishment. Unfortunately, there exists the risks that smaller minds might take advantage of his liberty, but that is where the will of the majority must be recruited to keep those in check.

Laz