What will take oxidation off brass without a lot of elbow grease?

Is there anything that comes in a brush-on or at least spread-on form that will take spots of oxidization/red rot crud off brass without eating the
brass itself and does most of the work for you, sort the way Tarn-X works on silver? I'm giving an old trumpet a going over and want to reduce some of the tedium in resurrecting the sheen of the metal before lacquering it.
Also, what sort of surface preparation is recommended before lacquering? Please no "take it to a repair shop" answers, the whole point is to be a DIY project.
Thanks for all shared wisdom.
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Bar Keepers Friend
http://www.barkeepersfriend.com/products.htm

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Doc wrote:

Sailors have been cleaning brass in the US Navy for many years with vinegar and salt. It works very well. I also recommend Brasso, which does require a bit of labor, but it works well too.
However, it has to be really really clean before lacquering, so if you use something like Brasso then you will need to clean it perhaps with acetone to remove all residues.
GWE
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stay away from tarn-x at all costs. on anything. i would try brasso.

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Tarn-X isn't made for brass, but was looking for something that basically does the same thing, knocks down most of the oxidation by itself without having to scrub. Besides the labor factor, there are some pits that are going to have to be gotten into chemically, hitting them with any kind of a cloth/polish or wet/dry paper just goes over the top of the pits. Plus, I really don't want to totally disassemble the horn to get every surface, if I can avoid it.
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They advertise some kind of soap/detergent/cleaner on TV right now. (saw the add during the last couple of days) In the ad, they put a dirty penny half into the goop, and it comes out clean and shiny (no scrubbing) watch for that ad, and get that goop. I have a horn I need to clean the same way, but mine is an old antique Conn with engraving on it. An expert told me to be careful of cleaning it. If I buff it off, (she said) the engraving might come off with it, and then the horn would be worth much less. So I need to do the same thing. But I have to first get the old lacquer off, and this probably means using paint remover or some such real strong stuff......
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no, it's not made for brass. but; i sure don't recomend it for silverplate either. i'm not sure how it works on 100% silver; but- don't try tarn-x on silverplated instruments. also- it's my experience that any raw brass will tarnish quickly- no matter how well polished; unless it is laquered. live and learn; i always say...

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On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:55:10 -0500, "JoeGuy"

Try buttermilk??

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Sailors have been cleaning brass in the US Navy for many years with vinegar and salt. It works very well. I also recommend Brasso, which does require a bit of labor, but it works well too.
To the list:
I was a sailor, never used vinegar and salt though. First cutter I was on everyone used Brasso. Second one was a Nevr Dull ship. I like the Nevr Dull a little better. It is a cotton waste impregnated with corrosion eating gook and leaves an oily film that protects the brass a bit from salt. Both Brasso and Nevr Dull will erode brass, especially fine details like engraving.
I use Nevr Dull on my horns, but not often. Mainly I use a polishing cloth from the instrument shop.
good luck
jn
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vinegar and

bit of

Is the salt strictly there as an abrasive or does it have some effect chemically?
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wrote:

Both. It's quite a powerful cleaner, but you have to make sure it's well neutralised afterwards or you'll see copper chlorides appearing (pale green, sometimes looks a bit like mouldy fruit).
_Never_ use salt and vinegar on cuprous alloys that are either even slightly porous (most castings) or valuable bronzes. The risk then is that you set off "bronze disease", a self-perpetuating form of chloride corrosion. Once this starts it's a real pig to stop it (and the chemistry to do so is a little hard to find and toxic).
Never trust the military's advice on cleaning things. They have unlimited pools of labour and many approved techniques are there as a deliberate make-work policy. Lots of these techniques work fine, but only if they're re-done daily. Most civilians want something that gets clean, then stays that way.
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But even tap water contains some chlorine, so I doubt if using salt and vinegar on a horn would cause any harm, provided you wash it off well when you are done. As a matter of fact, it goes without saying that no matter what you use, you should wash the horn well when you are finished.
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i think cleaning a belt buckle is much different than an antique horn. IMHO; i would use brasso; but, not until i am ready to have the horn relaquered; as it will tarnish quickly. this is what seperates the two schools of thought. while some of the guys like raw brass; i feel , it is very difficult to maintain. if you are trying to restore an antique horn- don't polish it up until you are ready to have it restored. or els- be prepared to polish it every week...

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wrote:

Chlorine, not chlorides. Straight out of the tap my (city) tap water tastes like bleach, but there isn't much ionic chloride content in it. Tap water generally can't have much chloride in it because that would render it undrinkable at even a low level - and it doesn't even have the antibacterial effect that chlorinating it does.
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Well, I don't really know how they, "chlorinate" water. Do they bubble chlorine gas through it, or do they use some salt containing chlorine? I know that when you chlorinate a swimming pool, you add some powder that you buy in a pool store. - I assumed it was some salt that dissolved in the water, and that chlorine ions would be the result. When you wash your horn with soapy water, you sure are adding ions to the water.....Sodium ions, and probably hydroxide ions, too. but the secret is in washing your horn off with copious amounts of tap water when you are done. Then, it really doesn't matter what was in the water when you cleaned it.....It all comes off in the wash anyway. They say your saliva is acidic, and that washing your horn in soapy water is good for getting the acidic saliva off of it......In general, I doubt that anything you clean it with is going to hurt it, as long as you wash it off afterward. I wonder what they use when they, "chem clean" a horn? do they give it an acid bath? And why isn't whatever chemical they use available for the home mechanic to use? I should be able to chem clean my horn at home in a plastic tub, shouldn't I?
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Large gas tanks of Chlorine. It is easy to add that way. Done that way at Swimming pools. Adding it via salts only causes water hardening issues. The salt would have to be broken down and then what happens. Adding HCL gives you bubbling H2 gas. CL gas is the best route.
Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
William Graham wrote:

-
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Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

OT: Pool chlorine crystals are typically sodium hypochlorite, a convenient carrier of chlorine. Actual chlorine gas is extremely corrosive and irritating so is not something to tinker with. As for drinking water, what is probably tasted as "chlorine" might actually be chloroform - the chlorine ions in water gradually transform into chloroform over time. It can take weeks for the water to get to your house from the water treatment plant. If your city gives you a regular water quality report, see if it lists a chloroform percentage. Mine doesn't. It likely varies by distance from the treatment facility anyways. Chloroform is nasty stuff too, but chlorine is necessary to prevent other even worse stuff from growing instead. Also water that is left sitting out will absorb carbon dioxide from the air which also alters the taste and chemical properties. Bottom line is, if your water tastes bad and/or you are concerned about the quality, install a good filter or use a distillation purifier. :)
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It is GAS - been that way for many years. Done that way in swimming pools (city types/university...) Home pools put in a salt and naturally
Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
William Graham wrote:

-
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Due to safety and security concerns, many municipal systems are now converting to a solid form of chlorine.
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

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Aremick wrote:

At any reasonable temperatures and pressures Chlorine is a GAS. (period) Now they may be using some COMPOUND of Chlorine (that means it is bound up with some other element /s) BUT it is NOT a solid form of Chlorine. pickey pickey. ...lew...
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