connecting batteries in parallel or series, myth and theory

Aug 07, 2008 342 Replies

I don't believe he's learned or done anything other than how to bolt cable to terminal. He only pretended to have done something extra, and it was predicable that he wouldn't supply any details. It's classic ghinius weaseling. He once claimed to have designed his way out of "needing" AC in a very hot climate. I nicknamed his invention "Magic Mass". Daestrom called him on it, and George took the discussion to email to demand a signed non-disclosure agreement before getting into details. But Daestrom outed the whole thing and George never did give so much as his average daily outdoor temperature, or even say what interior temperature constituted "not needing" AC. Hilariously transparent then as now.

What he expects is that most readers won't be able to tell if he's lying. He probably believes that only a few on Usenet know better, but it's likely that even the least technical folks he's ever dealt with were able to see through his bluster. For example, anybody with a pocket calculator can figure out that the following Ghioism is a foolish self-busting exaggeration: "my petrol use is, as it has been for many years, an average of twenty liters per fortnight. The bulk of this is for the motorcycle which is used for transport to and from school (280 KM a week). The rest is used to run the tractor, chainsaw and of course the generator"

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Actually, he's long since gone on to pretending to be something new

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Notice that he claims to "specialise" in editing, yet failed to properly edit his own "company" name. The ad used to have two instances of that particular error, and despite being ridiculed for it, he only managed to fix one of them. It's clearly his M.O. to wildly exaggerate his capabilities.

Reminds me of a story. I once asked a day helper if he knew how to operate a nail gun. He assured me in no uncertain terms. Minutes later he drove a pair of 3" nails through two fingers. Some people just aren't smart enough to admit what they don't know, even when it's against their own interests to pretend otherwise. There's surely something that George could be trusted to do, but even if it was augering a toilet drain I'd be asking myself how many ways he might find to screw up the job. It would take a brave owner to let George Ghio near a large battery bank. After all, what could one say if things went wrong? "I knew he couldn't be trusted to operate an Ohmmeter, but I thought he'd be OK with 1000 Amps" :-)

Did you read his 300k Ohm wire foolishness, and realize that he bills himself as a "power consultant"? The word "design" doesn't fit in with such contradictions except in his imagination.

One more thing you've probably noticed by now. Often, and only *after* George has absorbed yet another thumping in a debate, he'll weasel his way out the door by using any silly dodge. In this case he's pretending to believe that you are Ron. At one point he claimed that I was actually most of the regular posters in the energy newsgroups. Of course, being a true Renaissance nitwit it's unlikely he's capable of reading a header, so the Phil-is-Ron thing could be yet another delusion.

Wayne

generator"

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new

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Notice

Poor wayne, never built his house, never designed a system.

When all else fails he tells others what he wants me to have said.

Some days ago he declared it was impossible for one diode to produce DC or charge a battery with a single rectifier. I responded with several links to basic charging circuits and got no response.

Cool. Now apply that to a DC battery bank.

simpleton

liar

At a guess, simpleton, is the correct answer.

.................................................................... Looks like I will have to amend that to:

"At a guess, liar, is the correct answer."

And I am still waiting for the answer as to how it works with DC, being that the whole thing has to do with diodes and battery banks.

| Looking at the stated purpose of the paper and the "test setup" drawn in the | paper it would seem that the test conditions do not match the purpose. As I | understand it, in a VRLA cell the electrolyte has only limited contact with | the plates. Determined by capillary action in the separator material,

Are you confusing VRLA with AGM?

Cussing is not un-civil, dude.

Walking around a free forum acting like some sin free judge most certainly is, however.

I'll repeat my previous response to your poorly worded question.

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Now, a google search of the four words - half wave battery charger - produces 68000 hits, many of those hits show how it works.

I've built many small battery chargers with a single diode, and no filtering.

I was just correcting your false assertion that a single diode can't produce DC

Here is my original response of August 16 that you ignored.

-------------------------------------------------------------------- A direct example

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68000 hits on google for "half wave battery charger" That is a fundamental application, and one I have used many times. Direct connection with a wire. Many modern applications of an old circuit. You probably have used them if you ever used an old automotive charger.

All chemical cells are DC by definition.

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examples
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1999 patent
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examples

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A 1999 patent
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As I already knew the answer from the Penguin Dictionary of Electronics, E.C. Young, 2nd ed. 1988, page 229, I was more interested in your response to the use with batteries. This question is still unanswered as far as separating strings goes.

So... You feel that a half wave charger is the best choice for a large amperage battery set?

There you go again. I never actually asserted that at all. I asked you to show what you know. There is a difference.

If I am it is due to reading this paper:

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I'll look up AGM in a minute.

|> | Looking at the stated purpose of the paper and the "test setup" drawn in |> the |> | paper it would seem that the test conditions do not match the purpose. |> As I |> | understand it, in a VRLA cell the electrolyte has only limited contact |> with |> | the plates. Determined by capillary action in the separator material, |>

|> Are you confusing VRLA with AGM? |>

| | If I am it is due to reading this paper: | |

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| | I'll look up AGM in a minute.

What kind of capillary action exists in VRLA?

Did you read the cite? AGM, from what I read is a Gell Cell. VR (Valve Regulated) LA is made with an absorbent plate separator, under some pressure between plate/separator/plate, and a limited amount of electrolyte. Separator materials vary. Now. I am familiar with flooded cell and gell cell, having worked with both for many years, and I have seen the insides of what I now know to have been a VRLA cell as well as Silver Zinc flooded cells in the military ( the battery shop guy was a friend of mine and showed me how to inspect, test, and repair the AgZn cells ) but my responses in this thread are extracts from certain cited sites alongside already accumulated experience. If you must question something it would help if you actually read the cited paper before asking the question. That way you might not need to ask.

|> |> | Looking at the stated purpose of the paper and the "test setup" drawn |> in |> |> the |> |> | paper it would seem that the test conditions do not match the |> purpose. |> |> As I |> |> | understand it, in a VRLA cell the electrolyte has only limited |> contact |> |> with |> |> | the plates. Determined by capillary action in the separator material, |> |>

|> |> Are you confusing VRLA with AGM? |> |>

|> | |> | If I am it is due to reading this paper: |> | |> |

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|> | |> | I'll look up AGM in a minute. |>

|> What kind of capillary action exists in VRLA? |>

| | Did you read the cite? AGM, from what I read is a Gell Cell. VR (Valve | Regulated) LA is made with an absorbent plate separator, under some pressure | between plate/separator/plate, and a limited amount of electrolyte. | Separator materials vary. Now. I am familiar with flooded cell and gell | cell, having worked with both for many years, and I have seen the insides of | what I now know to have been a VRLA cell as well as Silver Zinc flooded | cells in the military ( the battery shop guy was a friend of mine and showed | me how to inspect, test, and repair the AgZn cells ) but my responses in | this thread are extracts from certain cited sites alongside already | accumulated experience. If you must question something it would help if you | actually read the cited paper before asking the question. That way you might | not need to ask.

AGM is absorbent glass mat, not gel cell.

VRLA is a class of batteries (includes AGM and gel cell) that includes a regulated valve to control the gas release at a certain pressure.

So. What kind of capillary action exists in a VRLA? HeH.

BTW, I am seing in literature the term Gell Cell and AGM being used interchangeably. I will grant that the specific technology is quite different, but ----.

Yes, and if they do gas off, the lost material is no longer there to recombine and the batteries capacity is diminished.

|> |> |news: snipped-for-privacy@news4.newsguy.com... |> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical Don T wrote: |> |> |>

|> |> |> | Looking at the stated purpose of the paper and the "test setup" drawn |> |> in |> |> |> the |> |> |> | paper it would seem that the test conditions do not match the |> |> purpose. |> |> |> As I |> |> |> | understand it, in a VRLA cell the electrolyte has only limited |> |> contact |> |> |> with |> |> |> | the plates. Determined by capillary action in the separator material, |> |> |>

|> |> |> Are you confusing VRLA with AGM? |> |> |>

|> |> | |> |> | If I am it is due to reading this paper: |> |> | |> |> |

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|> |> | |> |> | I'll look up AGM in a minute. |> |>

|> |> What kind of capillary action exists in VRLA? |> |>

|> | |> | Did you read the cite? AGM, from what I read is a Gell Cell. VR (Valve |> | Regulated) LA is made with an absorbent plate separator, under some pressure |> | between plate/separator/plate, and a limited amount of electrolyte. |> | Separator materials vary. Now. I am familiar with flooded cell and gell |> | cell, having worked with both for many years, and I have seen the insides of |> | what I now know to have been a VRLA cell as well as Silver Zinc flooded |> | cells in the military ( the battery shop guy was a friend of mine and showed |> | me how to inspect, test, and repair the AgZn cells ) but my responses in |> | this thread are extracts from certain cited sites alongside already |> | accumulated experience. If you must question something it would help if you |> | actually read the cited paper before asking the question. That way you might |> | not need to ask. |>

|> AGM is absorbent glass mat, not gel cell. |>

|> VRLA is a class of batteries (includes AGM and gel cell) that includes a |> regulated valve to control the gas release at a certain pressure. | | Yes, and if they do gas off, the lost material is no longer there to | recombine and the batteries capacity is diminished.

Yes, that is a problem. Replenishment is needed. Hopefully there is no lead in that gas. Loss of hydrogen, oxygen, and sulfer can be dealt with in a flooded cell. Both gel cell and AGM make this replenishment impossible. I guess that is an acceptable tradeoff for the benefits they provide for certain usages.

[deleted]

Was it really worth the post to say nothing useful at all? You know he will ignore your comment just as much as you've ignored his.

Don, your conversing with real Lame'rs here, on this subject. Not professionals by any stretch of the imagination, and snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com is the worst of them all.

Me

HeH. Good to see you here. I "am" being nice about it here. Quite unlike I treat the kewel dewdz on our "now pretty quiet due to national security concerns" group. A little stimulation of the mind comes in handy to us old folks though.

I'm wondering if the Bruce in Alaska here is the same one that posted now and again on a.e.e as well.

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