Square-D panel surge arrestors.

Apr 29, 2005 23 Replies

w_tom wrote:

This debate will only produce more light than heat if we all refrain from personal attacks. The hallmark of someone who is confident in their position is that they find such tactics unnecessary. There is an old legal motto that goes "when you are strong on the facts you pound on the facts, when you are strong on the law you pound on the law, when you are strong on neither you pound on the table." Most people will recognize pounding on the table as an admission that you are not confident in your position. It weakens rather than strengthening ones case.

Let me ask some questions. If a protective device equalizes the voltage on all connections of the load to be protected will that not minimize destructive current flow?

Are we really trying to provide the destructive energy a path to ground or are we only interested in avoiding the use of the protected components as part of that path?

Are destructive transients only high voltage relative to the earth or are they sometimes high voltage relative to the normal supply?

Back when I was a trainee on large commercial work I had a more pugnacious attitude about many things. One day the tile crew brought in a boom box that literally had to be carried on dollys in an attempt to drowned out the country music that the carpenters preferred. Since the electrical work rules forbid having music playing on the job our gang was neutral in the dispute but by the first break I had enough of this mega boom box. I draped a piece of cable over the top of the service equipment and connected it to a double poled breaker in the service equipment. The other end was connected to one end of an old double pole, double through, switch from the junk bin of the gang box. The other end of the switch was connected to the single pole breaker and the neutral buss in the derived system panel that was supplying all of the temporary receptacles on that temporary circuit. I tied the center of the switch in parallel with the temporary circuits wires and then I cut the original temporary wires out of the circuit leaving only the switch as the receptacles supply. For those that will not know, that means with a flick of the switch I could apply 480 volts across the temporary receptacle circuit. I did nothing to disturb the temporary grounding which had been conscientiously installed and had passed it's quarterly OSHA inspection only two days before. Why then was I treated to the sight of the tile crew trying to beat out their burning boom box with a drop cloth after I through the switch? I believe it was because the voltage was more than high enough to burn up the power supply of the boom box the tile crew had been trying to deafen us all with for hours but no were near high enough relative to ground to damage the wiring itself. Brand new wiring in commercial installations is often tested by a testing company at one thousand volts to ground. Yet the stuff we plug into that wiring may fail at as little as two hundred volts. A plug in protector ahead of that boom box would have been a good investment for that tile crew. Not all transients are the same. I have seen with my own eyes the sacrificial failure of plug in surge protectors in saving copiers and computers from accidental over voltage connections. Grounding was not an issue in those cases because a surge cause by over voltage across the line may not give a rats patute about ground it is only trying to return to the source.

-- Tom H

You have applied a normal mode overvoltage. This is a type of transient that plug-in protectors claim to protect from. And yet still that plug-in protector would not have protected the boom box. Internal protection inside that boom box would still be overwhelmed - the fire. Voltage would have destroyed a grossly undersized power strip protector - still destroying the boom box.

Meanwhile, such normal mode transient (transient not really the correct word) is not what typically damaged electronics as demonstrated by the number of boom boxes that never catch fire. The typically destructive transient comes down one or all power lines seeking earth ground. A destructive transient on black hot wire is simply shunted to white neutral and bare safety ground wire by a plug-in protector. Now the typically destructive transient has three wires to find earth ground destructively through electronics. What has the adjacent protector done? Provided a transient with more destructive paths through transistors.

Defined is a typically destructive transient that seeks earth ground. Somehow a plug-in protector (so undersizes as to vaporize before the boom box caught fire) is going also protect from another, typically destructive, type of transient? Not likely when its manufacturer does not even claim such protection. Just another reason why many plug-in protectors are also so grossly undersized - too few joules.

My music tastes are flexible. Provided was a reas> This debate will only produce more light than heat if we all refrain

Most of your post is about ehsjr (me). The quotes you attribute to me are not mine. Here's the first one (and there are more), as an example: > protector. However ehsjr has twisted this into "Polyphaser > recommends plug-in protectors".

In addition, you misrepresent what I have said, throughout your post. It is a shame that you don't stick to the facts.

I do note that you recognize the Polyphaser point of use protector as a solution, albiet "a second best solution". If it is a solution, even a second best solution, it must be effective. 'Nuff said.

Ed

Which is it? Polyphaser recommends plug-in protectors? Or Polyphaser discusses protection always in terms of earth ground? The protection is earth ground. The protector is only a connection to protection. But ehsjr says this is "False" - his one word reasoning is sufficient.

The Polyphaser's "second best" solution is not acceptable for household protection. It is a kludge. Something installed for temporary duty with ratings in excess of most every plug-in protector. What do effective protectors do? Connect to earth ground. What do plug-in protectors do? Pretend to connect to earth ground as to even induce surges on other adjacent circuits. At best, they are kludge protection with typically too few joules at unacceptably high cost.

What defines each layer of protection? The earth ground. Primary protection provided by the utility. Secondary protection provided by a 'whole house' protector. Plug-in protectors don't add anything. Where it their earth ground? No earth ground means no effective protection.

Considering their excesive cost per protected applaince and their typically undersized joules ratings, one could never responsibily recommend plug-in protectors. But then what do plug-in protectors not even mention to make a sale? What is the most critical component in every surge protection system? Single point earth ground. Enhance the earthing system to improve protection. Ineffective plug-in protectors completely avoid discussing earthing so that you will buy their grossly overpriced and undersized product.

Dem> Most of your post is about ehsjr (me). The quotes you

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