"Automatic" vertical deadbolts - please help me find one!

The special tool is nothing more than a heavy wire probe that you insert into a hole next to the cylinder (depressing a retainer) and turn the key to remove the inside cylinder.

A jimmy-proof lock won't work as a replacement because it's probably a 2

1/8" cross bore and a J/P lock requires only a 1 1/4" hole for the rim cylinder.

Here's what I do to replace them...

Remove the Ideal lock and replace it with a standard knob lock. This will give you the automatic locking you desire (although it's not a deadbolt). Then install a deadbolt above the knob lock.

The big advantage of the Ideal locks was that they were the only vertical deadbolt designed to be a knob replacement rather than an auxilliary lock. The big disadvantage is that they really weren't very durable. I've managed to repair one or two by re-bending their springs, and I still have a few samples deep in a back corner, but Ideal probably made the right decision when they dropped the product.

... As I recall, no special tool was needed. Rotating the interior turnpiece partway should expose the screws that allow you to dismount it. If I can find mine I'll check that.

Correct name, and correct description, respectively.

His best best is to remove the Ideal, replace it with a normal knob, and fit an auxilliary lock that provides the automatic-vertical-deadbolt behavior. I believe Segal still manufactuers a "slam lock" which would do the job; their part number is either 466 or 467 depending on which strike it ships with. I'm not sure what the current retail price is, but a good locksmith ought to be able to special-order it.

Hi again guys,

Thanks very much for your replies. I have passed this information onto my dad and he will have a go at repairing the lock this weekend. If he can't, we'll look further into your "dual lock" suggestions :)

Now I know why he wants a double cylinder automatic vertical deadbolt - it's because we have glass on either side of our front door, and I assume that it is possible that with the single cylinder type, an intruder could simply smash the glass, reach around and turn the knob to open the lock.

I also seem to recall reading on the internet that double cylinder automatic locks are illegal because of safety reasons, so I guess there goes any possibility of getting a double cylinder type! Thinking back, there have been a few times that we've not only been locked out of the house, but locked in! :) However, if there still are any dual cylinder automatic vertical deadbolt locks around, please let us know! Thanks again,

Ben

They're illegal in some jurisdictions for some applications. Check local laws, usually fire codes.

Think about combining that with a fire, and you'll see why we're concerned about this. If you must use a double-cylinder lock anywhere that could possibly be considered a fire escape route, you should seriously think about hanging the key nearby (but out of reach from the window), preferably very visibly, and about doing fire drills with it and pointing it out to guests.

As far as I know, the simple answer is "No." If someone finds one, please do let us know. It's a special-purpose tool, but...

As noted in other recent discussion, if you don't insist on vertical deadbolt there are other options for slam-locking mechanisms. They don't have the simple mechanical integrety that a vertical does -- I like 'em too, in situations where "ugly" is OK -- but a 1"-or-longer traditional deadbolt is pretty reasonable unless the doorframe is weak.

one of the guys here thats on the east coast can tell brands, I never seen one in my area, BUT.,.. there IS a double cylinder deadbolt.. that the INSIDE cylinder is key RETAINING, until you insert the key for the OUTSIDE lock, then you can remove the inside one.. perhaps this type would be allowed in your area, for 'life safety', and give you the security you need for your situation???

--Shiva--

Medeco used to offer that behavior. Others have used keys modified to stay in the lock until a release tool is used. In either version, they may offer a modified key blank with a thumb-turn-style head for aesthetic purposes...

Whether that meets fire codes depends on the local authority having jurisdiction; ask them... but I'd consider it a distinct improvement, at least.

Of course simply hanging the necessary key nearby but out of reach of the window accomplishes some of the same thing, though less conveniently. Might almost be worth investing in a "break glass in case of fire" box to guarantee it's there when you need it.

Hi again guys,

Since I'm not all that familiar with Google Groups, I'm not sure whether or not this message will appear in the original thread, so if not, I am referring to a message I posted a while ago regarding trying to remove our Ideal Security vertical deadbolt (purchased ~1980) on our front door.

My dad and I have tried using the piece of wire suggested by Bob deWeese to remove the lock, but unfortunately we've had no luck at all. We just can't seem to find anything inside for the wire to latch onto, and it's virtually impossible to shine any light in there to see what we're doing.

I don't know how to post pictures into these newsgroups, so I've hosted the pics myself and have included the links below. I apologise for the quality, as the only digital camera we have is the one in my phone :(

of the lock

of cylinder (interior of house), showing the holes where the wire is inserted. Note that the top hole is half covered, and this is the same whether or not a key is inserted. In this picture, the bottom hole is fully covered, as it is only uncovered when the key is turned to a certain angle.

picture as above, except the key is inserted and turned to reveal the bottom hole. The top hole is still half covered as above.

of lock and handle from outside the house.

of entire lock from the side of the door. Note that the metal ball is missing (round hole in the middle of the picture). This used to act like a catch so the door wouldn't swing open by itself when it wasn't deadbolted.

don't know if this is in fact called a striker plate, but it is the part that the lock latches into when the door is shut.

view of the "striker plate". Note that our door jam is very thin - I'd say less than an inch.

piece of wire that dad made up to try and get the lock off :) This is *not* the original that came with the lock. We have been inserting the left end into the lock.

If anyone could lend us a hand with specific instructions on how to get this lock off, or even a scan (or hyperlink to) of the inside of the lock, it would be much appreciated. We have tried pretty much everything we can think of to get it off so far, other than actually breaking the lock :)

We also don't know which hole we are supposed to be putting the wire into. I would have thought it would be the top one, since half the hole (is this possible? :P) is never covered. However, my dad thinks it is the bottom hole, since the entire hole is exposed when the key is turned to a certain angle. How far do we insert the wire, and approximately where (and what) are we supposed to be "grabbing"? Thanks in advance for your help,

Ben

That is, in fact, the correct way to post pictures into any newsgroup other than one which explicitly authorizes binaries.

Hi again guys,

Some good news! My dad finally managed to get our lock off the door last night! Apparently the spring inside was very stiff so he needed a small Allen key to push it in. That's probably why we were having trouble in the first place - we didn't know that so much pressure was required.

Anyway, once again, thanks very much for all your help.

Regards,

Ben PS: I have posted this message to my old thread and the new one.