Breaking in to the business

Hello,

Many old school smiths frown on home study since nothing compares to field experience. I agree, however everyone needs a starting point, and FB does provide a good foundation.

The industry has changed over the years and continues to do so. Once you could apprentice with a master locksmith, and after a few years venture out from the shop to start handling service calls, advancing through experience. These days you need core knowledge and mechanical abilities (base + promise) before anyone will invest in molding you further. Larger companies are displacing the single man operations, and its harder to just stock up a van and throw yourself out there.

Alot depends upon the circumstance, if someone needs the help bad enough, a rookie is worth investing time, small town single man operations are ideal to learn. In larger cities the big shops run the bulk of the commercial business, and they want to see something they can build on (are you worth their trouble).

I learned manipulation out of curiosity many years ago, took the FB course in the 90's, apprenticed with a fantastic mentor for a few years, and eventually worked on field calls that advanced with my experience. These days I can handle most mechanical work, and am learning electronics and alarm systems through technology overlap. I'm more than some handyman but certainly no master (yet!).

We all must start somewhere with hope and desire; while patience and perseverance are our applies.

A word about tools, start with the basics and expand with your needs, don't buy all the gadgets. Tools should save you time and/or trouble, but keep an eye on the return for your investment. For example, don't buy safe tools (change keys, etc.) when you are still learning about door locks, there is no return on baggage carried.

The same goes for associations, look at their value to your situation, don't just sign up for stuff.

Again, good luck! David

They certainly earn respect beyond simple compliment, and demonstrate both patience and wisdom repeatedly. The difference between knowledge and wisdom is often reflected back upon as talking across instead of down.

He's just stretching out with his feelings, instead of facts.

This place is more for peers with like interests; if you want to learn how to break into things use a search engine, its out there somewhere else. Folks that come here and complain about "secret squirrel drivel" are just bitter to find professional morality instead of senseless teenage indiscretion <insert Beavis laugh here>.

LOL Aren't you that same guy who was complaining that there was authentication required to get into the locksmith wiki site?

Yup. Having a shared interest about something and authenticating with a validated entity organization is one thing. Being willing to give away that much personal info for an unverified intangible is completely different.

(Certainly no offense meant to the potentially on-the-up-and-up fellow putting in all that effort for the locksmith wiki...) I don't know him from Adam or Joe. For all I know this fellow just moved from Florida and is collecting new locksmith info to restart dispatch scams.

No thanks to that, I passed. Did you?

Requiring that personal info is his effort to prevent "senseless teenage indiscretion". You can't have it both ways.

Unless you know almost absolutely nothing FB is a waste of time. Spend the $600 on a refernce library, and unless you are going to be able to use someone elses all the time, code software.

You really haven't read many of Stormy's posts.

Hardly. The evidence was posted. The fact that you chose to ignore it is irrelevant. Hardly a week goes by Stormy doesn't provide some new evidence. It's been reposted again here along with some of Stormy's other little gems. Scroll down and look for:

"Two works, in many cases. I did a MK in a factory where someone

Is this an example of Stormy's wisdom or his patience because I can't figure out which. Help me out would ya? In Stormy's world half-assing stuff, creating a potentially dangerous situation, and charging people for it is A-OK as long as "they never find out".

Perhaps you think that creating a completely flawed MK system which can be overcome by a little jiggling and keeping it a secret from the paying customer is OK, you might even think doing it and covering it up is cool (if either is the case you are probably also a hack, and frankly it's hard to see how you can defend somebody who does this s*it, when you knew, or should have known based on what was posted that they did it, if you don't think it's OK) In reality it isn't cool or OK. It's hackery and incompetence at the least and outright fraud at the worst. Personally I hope "they" find out and he gets sued for it.

It's an open forum for anybody that wants to post in it.

if you want to learn how

The only people I see talking about secret squirrels are you and Tim (Mathews?).

A few of many examples of Stormy's admitted hackery follows. If you still want to defend him as a competent professional after reading it all I can say is: Birds of a feather.........

From: "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-& snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com

Yes, this next one is him too. Stormy use to post from the uni-berlin server all the time. Here not only did he break it but he doesn't want to fix it and probably can't anyway.

From: "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-# snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing Subject: Split jamb repair Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:40:23 -0400 Lines: 58 Message-ID: snipped-for-privacy@uni-berlin.de Reply-To: "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-# snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de

I'm really writing for some sympathy here. As much as writing for suggestions.

I got a lockout call on Friday. I was rushing to get some where else, and took the call. They had an upside down Tylo on the back door, and a 660 0n the front door.

The 660 picked OK, but wouldn't quite withdraw the bolt. (musta been drivers catching on the bottom of the plug?). The door didn't want to open. I asked if they had a slide bolt or anything. Don't think so.

She said something about the teenage son put in the ohter lock without instructions, so I picked it the other way -- figured the bolt was in upside down.

Still no go. I gave the door a good push, and it moved, so pushed harder. Well, shazaam, the jamb split. The strike was surface mounted, so picking it open didn't really open it, and picking it the second time relocked it.

She wasn't worried about it, I pushed it all back together and put in some long screws, and chiselled to mortise in the strike plate. She's good with that, and asked for a cash discount.

That was Friday about 3 PM. Well, here it is Sunday night and about 9:15 PM the husband calls. He's polite about it, but he wants his door fixed "I coulda broke in myself". Wants to know if I've got insurance, and if he oughta hire a carpenter and send me the bill.

I'm wondering a couple things. The wife said she's OK with that "don't sweat the small stuff". I guess he's well within his rights to ask to have it fixed. But calling on Sunday night? Jeez!

I'm also wondering, part of me says that since they want their door fixed (after saying it was OK) then I want the rest of my money.

I'm also thinking, and wondering how much work it's going to be to cut and replace a door jamb, tack the trim wood back on again, and then paint over the whole thing. Sounds like a real pain.

Woe is me, woe is me. I shoulda drilled the stupid Tylo. I shoulda, woulda coulda.

You would certainly know, it was your hobby. How many times did you get busted for forging in hvac? You didn't even bother to deny it. How many of those rambling BS O/T religious posts did you make to the linux groups just to stir s*it up?

Stormy that would be you and I posted the evidence to support it. As for me I rarely crosspost anything but I made an exception for this because sadly, people need to know you are not who you pretend to be, especially people you are giving your hack advice to. I am simply pointing out you are the dishonest hack you undeniably are. A few people may not know and may try to defend you. A few people may be fellow hacks and try to defend you. I don't care. The former will learn and the opinions of the latter don't mean a damn thing to me. Do you deny writing the following:

From: "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-& snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com

Want to try and defend this last statement? Because to me it sure sounds like a scumbag ripping people off for incompetent sub-standard work that creates a potentially dangerous situation but go ahead, try and explain to me how it's OK. It should be good for a laugh. I included hvac in the distributution since I know they always need evidence of your incompetence and general scumbaggery over there when you try and tell somebody who doesn't know any better some of your hvac wisdom, and I added home.repair because I've seen you post some nutty stuff that could cause problems for people there too. Get it through your head: You are a hack and you need to quit ripping people off, before somebody.....Gee I don't know who.....Get's in touch with the regulatory agencies, including the DOR in NY state to see what can be done. You are paying that FICA right Stormy, and collecting that sales tax, you got that nitrogen tank and that recycling equipment for that hvac and refrigeration work? If you are even 2 outta 4 I would be surprised.

actually I was taught by one of the best around my neck of the woods. also 4 other master locksmiths in his employ.

sounds like "Locksmit Institute" course :-)

all Foley Belsaw will give ya is some basics. you have the right idea. I did something very similar when I first started out. except, I didn't have any expierence, just a strong desire to learn the trade.

g'luck to ya

I said it was "taboo" because there are a lot of locksmiths that look down on Foley Belsaw. I heard a story once, maybe it was on here. Some guy went to a lock shop looking for a job, and as soon as he mentioned Foley Belsaw he was told to leave.

That course I bought in Ebay that I mentioned in my original post, I believe it was the Locksmith Institute course. But man, it was old.

No calls yet from the 3 shops I wrote to. Hopefully one of them will need help. I mean hell.. I'm gonna work for free. How can they turn that down?

I also just blew 15 dollars doing a background search on myself. As I expected, no records at all were found, and this is a search provided by the state. Maybe I should have saved it so I could offer it in case any prospective lock shops were curious?

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:461571cb$1$8934$ snipped-for-privacy@roadrunner.com...

yep, it was definatly part of their course in 1980...

my point exactly !

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:461571cb$0$8934$ snipped-for-privacy@roadrunner.com...

been there / done that many times and please don't call me "dear" :-)

yea, Locksmith Institute has been out of business for many years... I can now see why :-)

as I said before, you have the right idea. I took a Home Study Coarse, Locksmith Institute, the Coarse that I took is

not available any longer. This was back in 1980.

I then got a Lockshop to continue my training.

I told them that I had taken a Coarse and that I didn't know much and that I

would work for Free to show them I was serious. What did he have to lose?

He liked my attitude and hired me and told me that he would pay me anyway. I

think that it got my foot in the door. The first thing that he told me was

to forget that Coarse and let him train me. I was lucky enough to have

learned from 5 Master Locksmiths at the same time. I learned a lot of different

ways to do the same job.

You will see that the trade is a lot different than those Courses will teach

you. The Courses will give you a few Basics and that's all. Every Locksmith

develops his own way of doing Lock & Key work. You will learn a lot of

shortcuts that are not taught in the Courses. That will come with Experience.

The Trade is Changing so much, Mechanical Locks and Keys as we know them are going to be history in the future,

you must diversify to be able to stay in Business. One day it will be common that Cars will no longer have Keys, they will use Scanners and electronics to identify the operator. Some cars already use this technology.

Commercial Business offers more Profit than the Auto Business.

You can make Hundreds of $$$ per call instead of,

what I call "Chasing Change"...

I wish you all the Luck.

They could have lots of reasons. They might be staffed, they might not believe that they should spend time with a person that is not going to become their employee and may very well be thinking about becoming their competitor. They might be suspicious of someone making suck an offer in that they might have an ulterior motive to gain confidential information.

They might view the wage and hour law to require them to pay you at least minimum wage, or run the risk of you claiming at a later point in time that they owe you back wages for all the hours you worked.