Gardall Safe - For fun

Hello all,
First off - apologies if I come off as completely ignorant. Honestly,
it's because I probably am.
I recently moved into a new apartment, and in the apartment they left
a safe that they couldn't move - I guess nobody has used it for a
quite a while, and they don't know the combination. I asked if I could
try my hand at figuring it out, and they said to go nuts. So I figured
I'd make it a little project of mine. ;)
My question is twofold, one general, one specific. The specific
question first:
It's a "gardall" brand safe, looks to be maybe 25 years old at most -
about a 2 foot cube. On the front is a sticker, that says "S- 366193"
- does this have anything to do with the combination? I tried using
36-61-93, but that just seemed far too easy, and alas, it didn't work.
Does this sticker have any relevance?
Second question: I know I could probably call someone and have them
see if they could get into it. But I don't really want to do that -
this is for fun, not really anything else. Where can I learn more
about safecracking in general? I'm a puzzle solver by nature, so even
if I can't get it open, it seems like a fun project either way.
Thanks all for bearing with an insufferable novice.
-Umbrae
Reply to
Umbrae
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One of the best (public available) descriptions about manipulating safe locks can be found on crypto.com, Matt Blaze's cryptography resource
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Greetz, deciBell.
Reply to
Django Bijlsma
You can probably find Gardall safes on the web, and figure out about what it's worth. And then call a couple lock and safe guys, and get estimates on opening it. The couple of Gardall I've worked with were fairly straight forward, and might be able to be opened without damage.
Locksmiths don't give out information about opening things. Though some members of the public read this group, and aren't bound by the same ethical standards that locksmiths are.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
See if you can identify the safe model, and then contact Gardall with the serial number? Having more knowledge about the safe, might improve your chances of solving the puzzle.
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Reply to
BogusID
I can understand that you don't like to publicly disclose information about your trade - an understandable security risk. I'd be willing to go through official channels. Are classes provided in most metro areas? (I'm in brooklyn) I'm just not sure how one even gets into the trade at all.
Reply to
Umbrae
to do safes? DEEP POCKETS.. VERY DEEP pockets.. I need to add 3 tools to my 'supply' currently and those 3 will run $7+ grand and then there is 2 more that I would have as useful AND the only ones in my area, and they are close to $14 grand for the 2.
--Shiva--
Reply to
me
Not sure how NYC does it. Of course, NYC is highly over regulated. You will likely have to call several government offices to find the one who tells you which government office (one you already called) supplies the information.
In my case, I apprenticed with another locksmith to learn the trade for about 50 cents over the minimum wage. Until I learned enough to go into my own business. Safe cracking typically takes a couple years to learn.
Reply to
Stormin Mormon
Your Gardall safe prolly has an S&G 6730 mounted VD. You don't bother to say where the freakin handle is. If it's mounted vertical down the drill point is at 72X1. That means 0 the dial and the DP is 1" out from spindle center in line with 72. There is prolly hardplate. 6730 isn't manipulation resistant. Post a picture of the thing or a really good description if you want more info.
Reply to
Punch Job
I'm pretty sure it's the 1612/2 from this link, although it's a little difficult to detect size.
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Reply to
Umbrae
Everybody always says this and I have no idea why. Fact is doing safes is cheaper, waaay cheaper than trying to do a significant portion of the transponder cars now on the road. The same scope and drill rig will open a large number of safes made decades apart by hundreds of manufacturers. The key to safe work is good information and knowing exactly what you are going to do before you try to do it. When you get in trouble is when you try to use 3 7 grand tools without spending the couple grand first on good books so you know what you are dealing with.With good accurate info you can almost always do without the latest greatest tool. Not so the other way around.
Reply to
DB
I'm pretty sure it's the 1612/2 from this link, although it's a little difficult to detect size.
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Ya got some options
Look for a combo. Look on the front of the safe the side of the safe the back of the safe shelves near the safe under the corner of the carpet near the safe on top of doors near the safe, wharever, you're there I ain't. most people can barely remember their own names they write down combos and computer passwords. The smart ones use an offset. Maybe you already noticed most people aren't all that smart.
You can manipulate it. somebody already gave you a good link on how thats done so no point goin through it all here. Learn how to do that right and you will be able to do something 9 out of 10 locksmiths can't that's for damn sure.
You can drill through the front at 72X1 which means you will have to pop the dial and drill through the door including the hardplate. You can prolly do it on this one with a masonary bit but a bit for hardplate drilling like strongarm would be better. Bosche makes a good carbide bit for steel drilling and it's commercially available without knowing a secret handshake or the other BS some suppliers will put ya through for strongarm. Others don't but if I post the names here the locksmiths will go nuts and start emailing them and prolly they won't sell to you then either. Anyway drill with a HS bit till you hit hard plate and it stops going. You'll know cause it'll stop working and you'll start cussing the fucking thing. Then drill with the carbide till you are through the plate. Then switch back to HS or cobalt and drill through the door and into the lock case but stop before ya hit the wheels. This will give you a view right under the fence line up the gates by sight or with a feeler pick and open the thing.
You can side drill. Prolly no hard plate from the side. Coming in inline with either 69 or 75 will give ya a veiw looking down on the fence just enough to either side that it won't block your view. If you hit a bolt or anything else you can vary this point and transfer your readings. You will prolly need a scope but an otoscope like docs and vets use might do it. Source is any good pet supply or feed store cost about $100. You can easily line up the wheels under the fence in a couple trys. Drill at about 3 1/2" back from the front on the side of the safe. You'll go through the side, through the door, into the door cavity and through the lock case. Don't hit the wheels or you'll hate life.
Top drill it 3 1/2" back from front inline with the index mark. Scope the wheels and transfer 28 numbers left. Don't hit the freakin wheels or you'll hate life.
Top drill sraight down inline with 92 and you will have a good view of the wheels as they approach and pass the fence. Hard to fuck this one up. Lots of clearance to the wheel pack.
Scope the change key hole. Drill about 4 inches back from side or top and look through the change key hole to read the wheels. Practice this on a loose lock first. They're cheap and ebay is littered with 'em. On a VD mounted 6730 the change hole is .5" up and .5" right of spindle center. You need a scope that can view 90 deg to do it this way. This is real clean if you're gonna fix the safe. Just plug one hole no damage to lock or dial.
Don't try to punch the lock bolt or the spindle or you'll set off a relocker.
Reply to
Punch Job
drill is, a bit under $200. I like a half inch, 0-3000 RPM Makita..Is it Dewalt or Porter Cable thats the other liked model?? I forget which. I KNOW I got a 'similar model' in a Sears Craftsman brand that I am going to throw away.. that thing BREAKS bits and grabs in a heart beat, twists right out of everything.. the mount for the drill can be $17-25 hundred..depending on which style and manufacturer drill bits? $8-20 a pop.. and diamond core are, or were about $50 and up..havent looked lately. ball bearing busters are interesting as well.
books? no limits..seen several at $200 each. that depends on which area you going to concentrate in.. home/office stuff or GSA stuff.. lets not forget a week/10 days at Lockmasters taking the GSA classes.. plus room and board while there..its an interesting area..
a good scope? $1800 and up, depending on bells and whistles.. a welder, some other specialized tools that can run up to a grand or so..
so the $7grand is gone pretty quick. Now.. I would LOVE an auto dialer.. but thats an accessory.. $2600? IIRR??
and YES, ONCE you get the drill and mount, plus bits and scope.. THEN information is VITAL, as some of the horror stories published in SAVTA attest to.. They had one.. last issue or before.. 22 holes in the door, but it was a LOCKSMITH doing it, NOT a safe man. the 'lack of knowledge' was apparent.
--Shiva--
Reply to
me
A Nice piece of chain, lever and good quality drill are more useful then a magnetic base drill setup.
Oh by the way...try a masonry bit for the "hard plate".
Slow and Steady wins the race . And um...The information is key where to drill points are... in a pinch maybe you could "F" the thing up with a angle grinder with a nice cutting wheel where the locks bolt is, then clean 'er up with bondo and nice (grey ?) paint.
Reply to
Michael Navarre
Not really.
Try that on maxalloy or relsom, or ball bearings.
If you know where the bolt is then you know the handing of the lock and if you know the handing of the lock you should know the drop in. > > >
Reply to
Steve

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