Help with opening and changing combination on old Mosler Combination Lock

What you have is a GSA filing cabinet. These were used to prevent easy damage free entry. Even with training and all of the professional tools these guys are a pain to open.

There is no easy DIY solution to your problem.

Call on local experts and see if the price they will charge you to open and repair your cabinet is a better deal than making a boat anchor.

call a locksmith you are not going to get that open on your own

This is a Mosler GSA class 5 container. The lock is a Mosler 302. Best drill point is 66. To open it:

1. Remove the dial. As memory serves it's pressed on. If you don't have an appropriate dial puller (and we both freakin know you don't) you can pry it off or you can drill in the dead center of it until the bit hits the spindle. Insert a self tapping screw into the hole and press the dial off with the tip of the screw working against the spindle.
2. Drill point is at 66 and one inch from dial center. i.e. drill inline with where 66 would be with the dial zeroed, 1 inch from the center of the spindle. Measurements need to be pretty freakin exact. Drill a 1/4 to 3/8 hole, when you feel the bit break through into the lock box you are then going to drill the fence right off the lever.You need to go FREAKIN SLOW and you should probably use depth stops on the bit to go a little at a time so the bit doesn't slam inside the lock case and tear shit up. Once the fence is drilled away from the lever turn the dial R until the lever drops in and the safe will open in the normal way.

Before you try it I strongly suggest you cough up a few bucks and buy a Mosler 302 lock from ebay or some place so you can actually see what you are doing. You are gonna need a new lock when you get done anyway.

If you are a brute force type guy:

The spindle on this safe can also be punched knocking the wheel pack and cover right into the f****ng drawer. That will trip a relocker, which is the lock makers way of saying "f*ck you asshole". The relocker will have to be deactivated and the lever manually retracted to withdraw the bolt. Since I'm basicly a lazy prick and don't wanna explain how to do all that here is a diagram of it so you can figure it out:

Now that I told you how: If you f*ck up I don't want to hear it.

Personal repository? Sounds like you intend on burying yourself in a filing cabinet!

Hi-

It's better that you cut your losses and toss this container. The hardplate in front of the lock will certainly discourage you as your drill bits quickly 'go to lunch'. Besides, unless you're great at welding, have a source for parts (Mosler's gone) and and understand that the military uses these for indications of atttempted forced entry and not for drop dead security, it's useless!

Have a nice day -

Hubert Curry, CML

Tecnic wrote:

If you didn't get it open yet here is a diagram of the lock and drill points for it including the fence drill point that the other poster suggested you use. This is from a reliable source who has probably forgotten more about safe cracking than most people will ever know. The drop in point is listed as 91 Mounted RH so if it is mounted VD in your application which would make sense if the handle is below the lock, the 66 that was posted would seem to be correct i.e. 90 degrees/25 numbers less than 91..

Apparently the drive cam is on the front of the lock so the fence is not directly visible from the front but from the instructions it looks like where the parts are joined together is visible. I would expect this type of container to have some sort of hardplate, especially at the drop in point, which will require you to use a carbide drill bit and if it's carbide chip hardplate or similar you might need a diamond core bit. Hopefully there is no glass relock on it ;).

Why? Is it magic? No. It takes some specific information and a basic knowledge of metal working especially drilling various steel composites and alloys. Given time and the right tools drilling hardplate is not all that hard. The only thing I would question is whether there is any sort of external relock that will be tripped drilling at the obvious drill points for the lock in use.

I figured it had some. Use carbide bits, for drilling steel as opposed to concrete, at high speed as it's actually as much a burning operation as a cutting one. The bit will not seem to pentrate well at first. Run it at speed and let it heat up. You want it as hot as you can get it without debrazing the carbide from the drill bit. Use a little oil and water mixed together if you need to to cool it a little bit. If the carbide keeps breaking off the bits it's an indication it is a carbide chip or other composite type hardplate. If you don't have a diamond core bit alternately use the drill with the carbide bit and a suitably sized punch to break the carbide chip so you can keep drilling. Don't use the carbide bit until you actually get to the hardplate. If you really want to get serious get a small thermal lance like a hotshot from PGE (I think that's the company name if you're really interested let me know and I'll look for their catalog). These are very controllable with a little practice and will burn through hard plate like hot butter. We are talking seconds. The main danger is in over pentrating and destroying the lock it works so fast. They have a myriad of other uses too. I use mine all the time. It will go through a couple inches of hard spring pack steel in no time.

Besides, unless you're great at

Mosler 302 locks and parts like levers aren't that hard to find.

and and understand

No more useless than many other moderately secure safes that will cost him a lot more for a lot less space.

You have answered your own question. Time. = money Tools.= money Specific Knowledge. Time, money and risk= money.

Is it cheaper to hire someone that knows how to open and repair or is it cheaper to do it yourself.?

These are not easy to open, the tools are not easy or cheap to obtain, and the specific knowledge is not easy or cheap to get. It is also real easy to screw up and make things worse. Hence my conclusion.

"Roger Shoaf" snipped-for-privacy@nospamsyix.com wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@news01.syix.com...

He already has most of the tools he needs if he's bored through the back of the container. He's been given the specific knowledge, although not by any locksmiths as far as I can tell. The only remaining question was whether or not there was an external relocker and from the DOD public website the answer to that appears to be no, which is a bit surprising.

Cheaper is not the only consideration. If he wanted to hire it done I imagine he would have already done so. Some people like to learn by doing. In the case of one of these containers for someone who already has a drill and only needs to buy bits I would imagine DIY would be about the same cost or maybe cheaper.

This depends on your definition of easy. I am not an expert on these containers by any stretch but from the DOD publicly posted neutraliztion instructions + the other information I have found it appears that they are not all that hard to open compared to many other 'safes'. They are just very hard to open surrepticiously.

the tools are not easy or cheap to obtain, and

People in your trade tend to make this all sound a lot harder than it really is. I ran into it myself and was told that opening safes is just "beyond the capabilities of the general public". LOL I buy locked safes and open them as a hobby. To date I have done 5. The most difficult being a TRTL15X6. None of them were that hard. The only truely special tool I own is a harbor freight El Cheapo bore scope. With all the pseudo secrecy that surrounds drill points, for me they have been fairly trivial. Finding the drill points for the various locks was easy. In the case of the S&G 6730 I simply used a lock to make a drilling template. The drill points for most of the common modern safe locks are the same or very close anyway and in many cases aren't even needed as I've come to appreciate drilling into a 'safe' area of the case and transfering. If you do this even if you have no clue where the drop in point is once you know the relationship of the numbers in the combo dialing all possible combos including those in the FZ is trivial. The only thing that really takes any research is whether or not the safe has an external relocker and the one's that have seem to place it to protect the lock bolt. The norm seems to be to protect the lock case itself with hardplate, if anything and rely on the locks internal relock to deter spindle punching. I'm sure there are exceptions and that they become more common as the security of the safe increases but for most of the common low to medium security safes it doesn't seem to be a huge issue. Knowing the lock seems to be the main thing. Frankly security by obscurity here appears to be a pretty dismal failure, and even where it isn't it wouldn't be hard to examine a safe like the one in question although for someone like me who's intentions are strictly legal it might be cost prohibitive. As far as the hard plate it just doesn't seem that hard to drill and the baby thermal lance I have pentrated some from a burglarized safe I bought from the scrap yard like hot butter but took practice not to overpenetrate and screw up what was left of the lock case. Knowing the distance to the lock case seems to be the key here. These tools are dirt cheap and just as portable as a drill rig. In the hands of an expert I would think they would totally blow the normal UL rated working times out of the water.

Yes Tim i am sure the individuals at UL never thought of using a lance to defeat a safe.

Tim Mathews wrote:

Billy

I've heard the phrase "try 50" before. What are you actually saying? Do you mean that all three numbers are 50?

I've tried a series of common number sets. I.E. 20-40-60, 10-20-30, and others as well as your 50-25-50. Unfortunately none seemed to do the job. When the spirit moves me I often try a few more.

I'm really looking at drilling one of the drill points at this point.

Thanks for the > Many GSA safes are set on a transportation combination when retired.

Roger

Right now I have more time than money. I also have more tools than money. I never saw a tool I did not like. I grew up in a family automotive repair business, Now I am a retired Navy submariner. I was always good with my hands. I've tinkered all my life. I like to figure out how things work and I like the challenge of repairing things, especially something that has been given up for a lost cause.

Now, why do I say all this. I guess, simply put, opening up this cabinet will provide me with a useful repository and give me some enjoyment and sense of accomplishment alone the way. I know the professional can do it faster and with more ease. I'm going out on a limb here and will say I'm not convienced that all professionals can do it better than me in the end. It is not my intent to compromise the profession or take anything away from anyone. But I believe that with a little more knowledge and understanding of the workings of this unit I am capable of opening it. And open it I will.

Take care.

P. S. Is the "hard DIY soluti> >

Whothe'

Thanks for the input. Your info was clear and helpful.

I'm at the point where I think/realize that drill is my best option. I'm convienced that I can not lever the panel on the back of the drawer up high enough to remove it and thus gain access to the back of the lock. Using a 1/2" x 36" round bar, with a notch in the end, I can raise the panel but seem to need another 1/8" or 1/4" to clear the lower edge. Also, I'm not convienced that there is not a channel holding the panel on the sides.

I have not removed the dial yet, but will probably use your drill and tap method. I figured I would fabricate a drill template/guide and mount it on the drawer face and go from there, both for the dial center and for the "66".

Take care

whothehellknowswho wrote:

left'

Thanks for the clarification. I am now at the point of removing the dial. My intent was to fabricate a jig and drill the dial center out and try to fashion a puller or use one of my existing pullers.

Any other pit falls I need to watch out for.

Thanks snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: