Me and the Marketing email group again.

Gee. What a polite group! Anyone going to mention that Donuts is spelled wrong? Where's all our educators? <g>

Nobodi is reading the spam!
Newnsie

Newnsie,
What makes it spam?
Woody Quiñones

C'mon woodie, you've been trying to get "Your thing" off the ground for a while now on different sites.
This group is not like ClearStar where there is a seperate marketing section.
The people here only want Locksmithing discussed.
My .02
Newnsie

the ground for a while marketing section. I agree..
my2¢

Okay, so now I guess I'm getting a little insight to your real personality. What I "hear" you saying is that your a talker, not a doer. You'd rather talk about your locksmithing skills and be verbose, criticizing others rather than taking those skills and marketing them to your advantage. Either that - or you have all the answers and prefer to keep them locked deep inside rather than share anything with others that might benefit from your knowledge. Not only that, but you have taken it upon yourself to say that you represent all others on this group too.
Now don't get me wrong, but I don't really believe that for a second. The group I'm announcing is nothing but another venue to discussing putting locksmithing skills to use profitably. Now if you aren't interested and aren't willing to be helpful in the effort, that's fine. But PLEASE don't accuse me of spamming when I announce another venue for locksmiths in a locksmithing forum. I'm not charging for the sight. I have nothing to sell there. It relates to locksmiths. Its number grow daily. It's new and I'll make mistakes. But this is not spam.
"Key" agrees with you. So neither one of you have anything to contribute or gain there. Others might. 'nuf said!
My .02
Newnsie
Mike Thomas Lock & Key For an email list discussion of locksmith related marketing concepts join us at: http:// snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

"C'mon woodie, you've been trying to get "Your thing" off the ground for a while now on different sites. This group is not like ClearStar where there is a seperate marketing section. The people here only want Locksmithing discussed." "Key"
Actually, my thing, as you call it, has been underway for 6 months now and continues to grow. My thing has a name it is called Lockology. I have never disrespected you or made light of anything you have done or posted about here or anywhere else. You demand respect from others about what they post here, how they post it and to whom they post it to, then the same applies to you. When addressing my project please show me the same respect that you demand of others.
You by your dismissive attitude is just one of the biggest problems we have within our industry today. You only want to talk about the technical end, but let's leave out the promoting end. Then in the same breath locksmiths complain about less business, police opening vehicles, home improvement centers selling hardware for less than they can buy it wholesale. When someone steps up and suggests how to promote their business a little better or differently they are accused of spamming.
What many of you do not stop and realize is that promoting your business and marketing it to the public is locksmithing too! When you separate the two you are hurting your business efforts. Educating the public draws them closer to us. If someone is willing to show you how it works for them, then you should be quick to listen and slow to speak. You just might learn something that brings more clients into your store fronts or additional service calls.
Marketing or promoting your business is the veins that keeps every business alive and thriving, not what you do. What you do is a by product of what you are promoting. They go hand in hand. If you remove the veins from a body it will die. You remove the marketing from your business, it will die a slow and painful death as well.
It's easy for you to put me down and make light of my project. Why? Because you do nothing to help the industry except take potshots at those trying to help others. It doesn't fit into your perception of what others should be really doing in their business. So let me ask you, When was the last time you gave back to our craft? What I'm doing is helping those who may need a step up and I don't receive any compensation for doing it except the occassional feedback. I like helping those in our craft get better.
So what are you doing?
Woody Quiñones

I and others around here, watched a man drop 3 grand a MONTH into promotions, and advertising... thats almost 20 bucks an HOUR, assuming he considered a 40 hour week...
we were AMAZED that he lasted almost 2 years...
today? small ad in the phone book, and a VERY limited locksmithing service- he ONLY opens cars, no key making, etc....
and that is sufficient for his business now- He IS making money...whereas before, it was all outgo...
it can be a very tough nut to crack successfully...
--Shiva--

the ground for a seperate marketing section. real personality. doer. You'd rather talk others rather than Either that - or you inside rather than knowledge. Not only represent all others you starting to sound like a troll now :-)
for a second. The group putting locksmithing aren't willing to be accuse me of spamming when forum. I'm not relates to locksmiths. But this is not spam.
you don't have to be selling something for your post to be spam. repeated news group post about the same thing can also be looked at as usenet spam.
to contribute or guess your putting me in that same boat because you also disagree with my2¢. not saying that your group is a bad thing. just saying that I agree because you have repeatedly posted about your group. just keep your link in your sig like you have done and there shouldn't be any misunderstandings.
g'day

the ground for a ClearStar where there Locksmithing whats my sig doing above ? I did NOT post that.

I'm not putting either of you in any boat. I have nothing but respect for both of you and your contributions here. I guess that was why I was so taken aback to see the response I received. Like I said, I have and will make mistakes.
The fact that I thought of ways to try and better express what I was doing and came back to post, doesn't mean I was SPAMMING the group. That you define it that way is unfortunate. And I certainly don't want to alienate the folks that could help in these efforts. In my mind, it meant that I was trying to clarify something I thought I was unclear with before. Also, and I'm sure you know this, repetition is a key in any promotion.
I've started something that I really feel is needed. I want to get the word out. If I offended some sensibilities I apologize for the offense, but not the post or it's intent. We (okay, I'm not speaking for everyone) that is "I" have wanted a place to discuss marketing and sales relating to locksmithing for a long time. I could never find one - not even here, so I started one.
It would be great if you wanted to help and contribute. Hopefully we can all get past this without hard feelings and have an amlicable relationship here. Meanwhile, if you ever get curious you know where it is.
Perhaps there are many that are as good as they want to be. I never will be, and I know that I can't get better alone. Mike Thomas Lock & Key For an email list discussion of locksmith related marketing concepts join us at: http:// snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

It would be great to have him and others that know his story in a place where warning and counsel could be offered from experience instead of a dozen locksmiths having to learn the same lesson and from their pocket books.
Mike Thomas Lock & Key For an email list discussion of locksmith related marketing concepts join us at: http:// snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

One of the biggest mistakes locksmiths do when promoting, they think it is all about spending to make money. They do not consider promoting using their heads. They believe the old adage "You got to spend money to make money!" That is not how you go about marketing any type of business. You use your brain and not your wallet. You start small and work your way up if the need arises.
You have to understand the spending public and what drives them to spend. You also must stay in control of your business expenses. If you have an advertising budget then consider what your spending and decide if you need to pull back in one area and expand an area that needs more attention.
When you come up with marketing strategies or tactics you must test them and measure what type of return you received from it. If it works then you build off those formulas. If not then you tweak your strategies, test and measure again.
Also many locksmiths think marketing is a short term process, that is going to bring in loads of customers. That is shortsighted. Marketing your business is like putting gas in your vehicle. For as long as you own an operate that vehicle you must maintain it so you can continue to use it regularly. If you don't stop and fill up once in a while and rely on what is in the tank you will come to a halt.
That gentleman you speak of, also may be a good locksmith but a poor businessperson. 30 years ago when I started off in sales and marketing different types of businesses, I learned that some business owners ideas of marketing is to throw cash at the project. Then they measure the success based on input and output. If they didn't receive $2 for every $1 spent, then in their eyes, marketing wasn't working. So they give up and take their chances. Very sad.
This is how so many locksmiths get into trouble with their businesses. They will tell you of the horror stories they experienced and all the money they spent. They conclude that marketing a locksmith business doesn't work. But when you ask them, "What direction did you plan for your business to go in?", all they can say is, "I just want more customers". Marketing is also about setting and reaching a goal. If you don't reach the goal you change strategies, promote again, test your outcomes and measure your progress. What the whole process is doing is branding you into your community.
In this day and age consumers, clients and customers are more knowledgeable then they were 30 years ago, when I first started out in sales. For any small or home based business to compete you have to market with a direction and a clearer understanding of how the public thinks. I read a statistic recently. On any given day, a person's brain receives 3000 different messages a day. If that is the case then trying to get their attention requires we constantly have to be getting our names out there. If you don't your message will be lost.
Woody Quiñones

Woody, Why don't you tell us all about how you made lots of money in locksmithing with your brilliant marketing skills. This isn't the first time you have been to this news group with a marketing scam. Once you get a group of people signed up to your group what then.
Woody Quiñ>> I and others around here, watched a man drop 3 grand a MONTH

that group. there but respect for both was so taken aback will make mistakes. what I was doing and That you define it alienate the folks that was trying to clarify my bad if I misunderstood ? I also respect your contributions here.
agree but I just want you to understand that trying to accomplish therepetition in your promotion by repeaded post to news groups may well be looked at as spam.
want to get the word offense, but not the refer above.
wanted a place to long time. I could Hopefully we can all relationship here. no hard feelings here. probably would contribute but I have this personal thing against moderated groups and also yahoo its self. don't care about being censored in any way. thats just me !
be. I never will be, marketing concepts join us thats good. hope you success..

There are a (very) few folks here who are violently against anything that looks vaguely commercial. Debating it with them is nonproductive.
Link doesn't work, not surprisingly. Was it supposed to be an e-mail address?
I've had past problems with yahoo groups not working properly, so I sorta wish you'd gone with a more reliable venue. "Quality, service, price -- pick any two." I'm also highly skeptical of the potential value of this list -- among other things, it still has to be treated as insecure so we couldn't discuss anything there that can't be discussed here -- but I'd be willing to briefly lend an ear before I write it off.

Understood and respected. It should be known the group is not moderated, although it's possible. I would probably remove anything that was contained brash profanity. Anyway, thanks for your well wishes!
Mike Thomas Lock & Key For an email list discussion of locksmith related marketing concepts join us at: http:// snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

I used the link you forwarded and it worked for me. If it proves useful I may go to another venue. I'll send you a push-button link. If you don't want it or aren't intersted, just delete it. Certainly don't want to offend anyone else. If it doesn't prove useful, it will die a natural death.
Mike Thomas Lock & Key For an email list discussion of locksmith related marketing concepts join us at: http:// snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

A lot of people don't use their head when it comes to promoting a business. Here is the other end of the spectrum... When I was first starting out in Davenport, Iowa, pop. 99,000. I made up some small flyers and went around to different areas of town and passed them out to both residential and businesses. Man, you can't believe the response the first couple of weeks. That was the nudge a lot of people needed who had problems that they had been putting off. It tapered off some after that but I got quite a bit of repeat business and new business for the next couple of years just from those flyers & word of mouth. Advertising doesn't have to cost an arm & leg.
Leon Rowell
--Shiva-- wrote: