That's fine for cosmetics although fiberglass resin is better since it's harder and doesn't scratch as easily, as long as the drilled hole is plugged with a material at least as secure as the original. Typically a hardened steel plug with a tight fit is used.
With it reassembled you shouldn't see anything. It should look as it did before. The repair will be under the dial so it really isn't that hard. If he screws up and extends the repar beyond what's covered by the dial assembly then it may be nesessary to paint the whole front or even the whole container. The main thing is to make sure the drilled hole is plugged properly.
No I haven't paid him anything yet. When he phoned me to say that he was bringing my door back, I told him to bring his bill with him when he came and I would give him a cheque as soon as he had the installation completed (and save both of us a stamp). In fact, I took one of my cheques with me and left it near the safe's location so I would have it handy when he presented his bill.
If he can fulfill our original deal and provide me with a working safe lock on a door that I can open and close in the expected manner, then I am (still) perfectly prepared to pay him the original amount agreed upon, but no more than that.
If he can not fulfill our original deal without drilling my safe (which was not part of the original work to be done) then I believe that I have more than adequate cause to question his competence and refuse to allow him to damage my safe any further.
Before he started work, I had a perfectly good safe without a lock on the door. Now I have a large, useless lump of steel with a door that can't be opened without damaging the door by drilling into it (apparently). Even if the damage can be repaired, it doesn't negate the fact that it will be damaged in the process of opening the safe again.
If we agreed that I was going to change the oil in your car and while I was trying to do that the driveshaft fell out onto the ground, would you trust me to replace the driveshaft and complete the original oil change, or would you take your car to a competent mechanic? And would you pay my bill for the oil change that was never completed in my shop?
The locksmith who locked up my safe created this situation through his own incompetence and error. If anyone owes anyone money at this point, I would say that it is him who owes me compensation for the damage that he has done to my safe to date, i.e. locking it "permanently".
what you don't seem to understand, though, is that I DON'T WANT my safe drilled and welded. It was in perfectly fine condition before he got here; I would like it to continue in that condition into the future.
Why in the world would I pay his original bill when the work is (a) not completed, and (b) not just substandard, but actually IMPOSSIBLE to fix without causing damage to my safe, especially when (c) the situation is a direct result of incompetent workmanship. If I contracted to put siding onto your house and then proceeded to burn it down, would you pay me for the siding job that we had agreed on?
As I hear the teenagers saying occasionally, "Bring it on." I may be talking to my lawyer about this situation and taking some action against him for damaging my safe, actually, depending on what happens within the next few days, and what he is prepared to do to "make it good".
On top of everything else, this job was to have been completed last week; I doubt I'll have a working safe for the foreseeable future if this situation continues for too long.
All that I wanted was to get a new lock put on my old safe door. That's it. I never intended for this to turn into an adventure; I didn't plan on fighting with anyone over anything in this regard. Install my lock, hand me a bill, I'll give you a cheque and good bye. It didn't seem a complex transaction at all at the time.
You have to allow him in good faith to attempt to fix his error... If you choose not to do that for some reason, than you must inform him that you would like him to hire out the work to someone more qualified to repair his mistake... He then can select a safe technician at his expense to fix the safe...
Anything else and you will need any deal agreed to documented in writing otherwise you will find yourself paying for it... Not him...
It was a large useless, open, lump of steel before he installed the lock on it... Umm, you seem to think that safe locks never ever fail, and that drilling them open and reapiring that hole is not something commonly done... Wrong...
Accidents happen... I owuld allow you to in good faith to attempt repairs... If you somehow made it _EVEN WORSE_ at that point I would pay you for the original work done (to be a customer, and ensure certain rights under the law) and then file a lawsuit...
It will only rtemain locked "permanently" if you deny him his due chance to fix his error in good faith... You do that at your own risk, as such an attitude could jeopardize your chances at winning a lawsuit...
Umm, no it was not.... It did not have a lock in it... He has IMPROVED you safe from the original condition it was in before you had any dealings with him... All he needs to do it open it and repair the lock, if you feel that he should not do this, then you both have to reach a mutual agreement to have someone else do the work at his expense... If you don't want to do it that way _TRUST ME_ pay him for the original work done, it will make you look better and appear more honelst if you ever take this dispute into a court of law...
You would have to pay him for his original work, because he did it... You won't know what caused the lock to fail until the safe gets opened...
The law is enforced by the determination of facts, and not on people's assumptions, which at this point is all you have... Give this locksmith a chance to fix his error, if he makes a mistake again, then you can do many different things and eventually previal in court by not until then...
Yes I would have to pay you for the siding, because a contract like is usually 50/50, half up front and half upon completion of the job, and your insurance company would make a lot of waves unless I was properly paid up... Besides, it is cheap money to pay up and eventually recover the funds in court later on, paying a bill under such conditions shows that you were upholding your end of the contract... It is a true bonus point for your side if you ever get to the point of standing before a judge...
Having worked for a large property management company before, I know to ask for insurance documentation before any type of construction work begins on any property I own... You never know what could happen when people are working with ladders near a house, and I would not want there to be even the remotest possibility that I owuld be left holding the bag in the event of an accident...
If your lawyer advises you to do anything other than pay him for his original bill, then find a better lawyer, Larceny is a crime in the US... The fact that you are disputing the workmanship does not release you from paying for it, and if you don't pay the locksmith could walk into a courthouse and file a criminal complaint against you, which would be totally separate from your small claims case, and like I said you would be on the loosing side of that issue by not paying for the work already completed... I am not sure of the laws in Canada, (your assumed location because of the spellingn of "cheque" and you referring to your attorney as a "lawyer" and not a "barrister"... But here in the US you would find yourself in deep if you didn't pay...
Sometimes shit happens, and you have to work to attempt to fix things... No one ever said that life was going to be easy... Sometimes, as you are learning even simple things can suddenly become needlessly complex...
Evan, ~~formerly a maintenance man, but now a college student
By your handle/screen name I assumed that you were a Christian. Perhaps I was mistaken. If not, check your testimony, brother. :)
For what it's worth, here's my opinion on your situation, and admittedly, it's from a Christian prospective of forgiveness.
By your description, there's a problem with the lock (see "stuck fly"). Should he have tried the lock at least three times before closing the door? Absolutely! My guess is he's not really a safe tech but a locksmith who dabbles in safework. (there are a lot of them out there - I used to be one)
If the directions to overcome a stuck fly don't work and he has to drill, and he makes a decent repair I think you should pay the original bill. The opening and repair should be on him.
Remember you did say that your safe wasn't a real "looker". As long as the repair is hardly noticeable (it ain't gonna be perfect), and done in a professional manner, he deserves to be paid for his lock and his time to install it.
Keep in mind, this is a (very old) record safe. It IS NOT a burglary safe. And to be realistic, not as fire resistant as it originally was new. Fire resistance deteriorates over time. And BTW - they are a-dime-a-dozen (couple of hundred bucks if that) in good condition. Expecting a new safe is both unfair and unrealistic.
Tell you what... If he wants, have your locksmith give me a call and I will try to give him some help over the phone. (see website link below for a number)
I'm not a christian (I'm an agnostic theist, more or less), but that tracks perfectly with my own ethics. It is his responsibility to complete the job in exchange for the agreed-upon payment. If he made the job more difficult than it had to be, that's his problem... but if he recovers reasonably, he will have completed the job he committed to and should recieve the quoted price.
(In fact, a proper safe repair after drilling can sometimes be more secure than before the safe was drilled!)
This is one reason that I, as a part-timer, strongly prefer to work from a set of fixed prices rather than by-the-hour. I price the jobs by the amount of time they would take someone who's doing this on a day-to-day basis (back-figured from a bit of informal surveying of local prices). Then if I take longer (because I'm being extra cautious, or because I have to stop to look something up, or just because I'm being fumble-fingered), it's my own fault that I don't get my official hourly rate, and the customer isn't out anything but a bit of time.
Mistakes of this sort are also why I offer friends a choice: I can give them a deep discount, or I can charge my standard rate. If they pay my normal rate, that includes a bit of self-insurance to correct any mistakes I make. If they get the discount, they _don't_ get a guarantee, just best-effort. (If a disaster happens, I may pick up part of the cost anyway since this is intended to be a gift... but they agree up front that my liability is strictly limited.)
Always knew you were a gentleman, Bobby... <smile/>
In view of the level of competence demonstrated so far, I am not sure that he is capable of doing a proper job of drilling and repair. And I don't know enough about the subject to know a "good job" from a poor one.
You chaps could probably look at his job and say, "Yes, that's adequate" or "No, that's not been done properly", but someone like me (not even an amateur in this subject) is out to sea when it comes to this.
Paint: It's on the wall or it's not. It's streaky or it's smooth. Carpet: It's flat, seams are well joined, or it's not. Car: It's running, it sounds right, all gauges are where they should be, tires are not flat, or not.
Safe repair: ??
I just don't see how it would be obvious to me that the job was done properly by someone who has already demonstrated that he's not among the top tier in this trade.
(BTW, if you've seen my past recommendations of a "Flat Rate Manual" as a tool for determining what to charge, that's basically what I described in my last post: a set of estimated times for various jobs, and recommended process for figuring backward from what you consider a reasonable living wage to what you ought to be charging per hour... plus some tweaking to balance that against what the market will bear, "loss leader" marketing, and so on. The better ones may also give some tips on other business strategy issues such as managing stock. Very useful tool if you want to operate a survivable business.)
I just tried this, but met with no joy so far. However, you sound so positive that I'm thinking that I'm not doing the oscillation part right; either not fast enough or not over a sufficiently wide area, or maybe too wide of an area.
I shall work with this more later on and see if anything interesting happens.
If this doodad is indeed stuck, would it help to, say, bang on the door while dialing, or rattle the crank handle, or anything like that as well?
Understood, but: If you get someone else to do it, how do you know they were any better? If you want "the top tier in this trade", you're going wind up paying for this from scratch, and it's now a significantly more complicated job.
Suggestion: Ask around to find out what his reputation is. If it's generally good, you can probably chalk this up to what my brother used to call a "brain fart" -- momentary stupidity -- and let him tackle it, especially given Bobby's offer to give him expert advice. If it isn't... well, then you've got a difficult question. In addition to the question of why you selected him in the first place.
a DEAD BLOW hammer is nice.. one of those no bounce/no damage ones.. plastic faced..
so the first number becomes either 16 or 24.. little practice and feeling would tell you..
so if you found its 16, then the SECOND number becomes off 8, the opposite way of the first.. (if the first was 16, then the next beccomes 48) if its 24, then the second is 32 and the third is off 12, the SAME way as the first.. if the first was 16, then the third is 48.. OR if 24, then its
Let's say that in view of the performance so far, I don't see how it could be much worse.
I really don't believe that this job should have required me to hire the "top tier", any more than replacing a broken light switch should require me to bring in an electrical engineer to effect the repair.
I made the assumption (possibly unwarranted) that a person who holds himself out to be a professional locksmith is indeed capable of doing the work that he says he can do. Same as hiring a plumber, electrician, carpenter or carpet-layer. If you say you're a professional tradesman, then doesn't that imply a certain level of competence in the trade? Surely a professional locksmith should be able to install and test a lock!
My situation here, though, is that I kind of live "out in the sticks". There is one (elderly) locksmith who lives in the same town that I do; I asked him to look at my safe some time ago and he said that he didn't feel that he wanted to tackle it. There are two locksmiths (that I know of) in the next town a half-hour down the road; I called this fellow because he advertises in a paper that's owned by a friend of mine.
I know of an outfit that apparently specializes in safes and vaults that's based in the city about 100 miles from here. I see their truck in front of the banks here on occasion. I hadn't thought it should be necessary to bring those guys in from so far away to do what I thought would be a simple job, and a job that this "semi-local guy" did say that he could do when he came here to look at it. In hindsight, that appears to have been a mistake.
Last Friday a went to a regular customer's location because they couldn't get the safe open. To make a long story short, I knelt down and opened the safe on the very first try, looked at the customer and said, "What's the problem?"
He said, "it's been giving us a problem for a week. Close it and try it again!"
Idiot that I am, in a momentary laps of common sense, I did just that! I (cockily) closed the door and, you guessed it, I locked up. (I kept hearing the words "Idiot! Idiot! Idiot!!!!" in my head)
I KNOW better than to close a safe that's having problems, but I did it. Fortunately, I was eventually able to get it open. (4440 with a worn guard key stop, for those taking notes) :)
Now had I not been able to get it open with the keys, I would have opened it at no charge and just charged them for the lock that already needed replacing and the service charge.
The point I'm trying to make is EVERYBODY (even the competent) makes mistakes. Let the guy try to rectify it. If he has to drill so be it.
Remember if he drills he's probably going to have to, at the very least, furnish (out of his pocket) a new dial, if not an entire new lock. Not to mention his time. And possibly other lost business while he's working on your safe.
Have you ever screwed up? How did you feel when you did it? Were you forgiven for it? As long as the guy is willing try to make it right, let him do it. And don't rub his nose in it. He probably feels bad enough already. (Remember the "Golden Rule".)
I know "locksmiths" (and I use the tem loosely) who would just take the loss of the time and material invested so far and become scarce. You'd be paying for the opening yourself (I'd get about $350 plus repairs for that one) and then chasing him down, possibly even taking him to court and losing a days pay.
At least this guy's not doing that. Consider yourself fortunate. Life's about "perspective".
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