'85 Toyota Truck - Engine Dilemma

I can't say specifically about the trucks, but I have an '89 Toyota Corolla station wagon. Against the dealer's recommendations, it is the first car I had undercoated. There is no body rust, and only a few small spots of rust on the very corners of frame members, etc. on the underside. I'm quite impressed. It has 129,000 miles on it, and they use PLENTY of salt in the winter, here, in St. Louis, where the average driver is in a total tizzy with 1/4" of snow. I used to giggle as I drove around people in 4X4s that were stuck, because they had no idea how to drive in snow.

(as for reliability, it is pretty good, too. I finally had the first non-standard maintenance items show up. A new starter at 110,000 and got the rear wheel cylinders rebuilt at 128,000. Before that, it was just tires, bateries, brake shoes & pads, and mufflers.)

Jon

Toyotas of that vintage usually don't have much frame or body left. Is there something special about this truck that made it last longer?

I'm suprised that the toy ng or mailing lists don't do better. I had the url for a very good one, mostly truck-related, which I queried about my camry questions. It was pretty good.

I'm also suprised that a 22R motor had the bottom end go. I thought those things were pretty much bulletproof.

Jim

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Ernie, I think you should rebuild it. If it really is a bad connecting rod bearing, the only parts involved are the crankshaft, bearing and connecting rod. Very replaceable, and the crank can probably be reground.

It's just some more stuff to learn. Just do it. If you can FAB steel, you can carefully do a rebuild. Mostly it's just a disassemble, buy new or have a shop regrind old (crank, valves etc), reassemble with care and all new gaskets etc. kind of job. If you have typical socket sets etc, you need a torque wrench, and buy or rent a cylinder ridge reamer and piston ring compressor and valve spring compressor.

I didn't know what I was getting into when I rebuilt my 1951 Ford flathead IN the vehicle, at age 16. But I learned fast. Definitely pull the engine out and work in the shop. Maybe a Harbor Freight engine stand as a luxury...

I'm looking forward to rebuilding another small block GM (My Yukon has 180,000 miles) next year.

Just do it.

Have you checked those places in the Little Nickel that sell low mileage engines from Japan?

It left Inidiana in 1990, so no more salted roads.

The Salt in the winter in the Midwest just eats imports. West coast Toyotas last forever.

No responses yet after 4 days.

So did I.

I've only worked on small-block Chevy V-8's, so don't know much about Toyotas, but IMO it would be easier out of the truck on a stand. Also as well as the other tools mentioned an oil pump primer is good to use before you fire it up,"a rebuild" the first time.

A word of warning though, a tranny with 150K miles on it might not last long behind a new"rebuilt" engine. Although I've also heard Toyotas run forever, so you can never tell.

Anyway, don't let it intimidate(sp?) you, once you tear into it and see how everythings put together it's gravy train from there on.:-)

A good book on the engine is a good idea, but wouldn't be surprised if you could find it all on the whirled why'd web.

Brett

In Japan you have to swap out your engine at 30,000 miles, Why?, because they are insane.

These engines are then resold in the US as replacement engines for about $600 - $800, however 20R and 22R engines made for use in Japan are illegal in the US so you have to deal with a rebuilt US engine.

I don't know, but if you are anything like me, I already have too many items on my plate - and if you got 80,000 miles from a $1600 good rebuilt engine - thats 2 cents/mile - I would go with the $1600, bolt it up and be on my way to doing something more important. Ken.

Hi Ernie;

I'd say rebuild it. Make SURE the rebuild kit has Felpro gaskets! The World / Beck Arnold / Joes Taco Stand and Gasket Works... head gaskets are pure crap. Double check that the plenum to head gasket and upper to lower plenum gaskets are correct, it isn't unusual to find the gasket provided isn't correct for these two places. Usually a water jacket is either not gasketed or is blocked off. No idea why so many FelPro kits that are supposed to be for a specific year get this wrong, but I've seen it with kits for the Toyota 2TC, 3AC, 22R, and 22RE engines. Saw the same thing with the one for a Suzuki Samarai once also.

You can probably have the crank ground. If the shop wants the block to verify fit, that's fine. When you get it back though, tear it back down and verify the sizes with plastigage and verify all the grinding grit is really out of the oil passages in the crank. I've found grit more than once in the crank "installed" with the new bearings in the block by the machine shop. No excuse for it, but something that many shops just aren't careful about.

The only really "special" tools that come to mind that might not be already in a well equipped shop are:

Ridge Reamer (may be needed, may not) Piston Ring Pliers - maybe 10 bucks Piston Ring Compressor (for putting the pistons back in the bores) Seems they're around $20. The tapered ring style are really nice, the style with the ratching steel band work OK too. Just oil the ring compressor well before tapping the pistons through.

Bore Hone - to put the cross hatch on the bore. If you have to have the block bored the shop that does the work should do this. Another $10 bucks. Use a low speed and plenty of kerosene or WD40. I like using an air drill for this, the speed is low enough to get a good cross hatch without having to move like a spastic hamster having a seizure.

Valve Spring Compressor. As the head will be off the old simple large C clamp style works fine for this engine - maybe $30 or so. Have a clean area when using this, the valve keepers love to drop off when you least expect them too.

And here's the weird one - a long T handled metric hex key to get the cap screw out that holds the plenum assy to the head. I have the Blue Point set, they are just long enough. There isn't enough room to use a hex bit on a ratchet on this engine, the only thing that works is the long T handle. Sorry I don't recall the size, but the Blue Point set was only around $16 from the Snap On truck.

A few lengths of plastigage in the 1 to 4 thou range, don't think this engine needs the thicker stuff. Maybe a buck a length, one or two lengths will probably do the entire job. The PlastiGage I've bought for this size has been green, don't know if that's still the case.

The Bentley manual is excellent, the Haynes is pretty good for this engine. The Chiltons wasn't so hot. Good enough to give most of the info to a guy who has rebuilt a lot of engines, not enough info for a first timer.

You may need to turn some seal drivers if you don't have the Snap On or Mac seal driver kit. I cloned my neighbors set. The dimensions are in the Snap On catalog, they make doing a rebuild quicker. I've used pieces of pipe faced cleanly quite a few times before making a full set.

You HAVE to have a good torque wrench, most likely you already do.

I'm surprised you lost a bearing with this low a mileage, and very surprised you have already had the engine done once. Not using Castrol by any chance are you? The engines I've torn down that were run on Havoline or Valvoline are usually really clean inside, the ones on Castrol are a varnished mess.

Do the job on an engine stand, trying to do it in the truck is more pain than the cost of an engine stand. It's just so much easier on a stand.

Buy or borrow an engine crane if you don't have one. Don't know how much they rent for where you are, around here a weeks rental was about the cost of just buying the darn thing. Once you have one you'll wonder how you lived without it.

Check the clutch while it's all apart, and go ahead and replace the throw out and pilot bearings while it's an easy job.

Don't laugh off the instructions to protect the rod ends while installing the pistons, more than one crank has been scored by someone who thought that putting bits of vacuum hose over the threads is for sissies :-)

I'd go ahead and do a valve job while it's all apart, at least to the extent of inspecting the valves and guides, lapping the valves and verifying they seat correctly. The rebuild kit should include the valve seals. Check the valve spring free and compresed heights while you're at it.

Replace all of the vacuum hoses while it's an easy job. Don't use the no name import stuff, CarQuest brand is made by Gates if you can't get the red spooled Gates from your local supplier. I buy it by the 50 foot spool, it's cheaper than by the foot.

Not really a tough job, just a few minor skills to add to the collection. The first rebuild is always a source of apprehension. I was really scared that I'd screw up completely the first time I did one. Once you've done one, you wonder what you were worried about. My first rebuild went almost 100K miles when the vehicle got totalled by a dork running a red light. The next one went 300K miles when I donated the car to the local VoTech, still running well but in a body going to hell in a hurry and an auto tranny starting to slip. I'm a computer nerd by trade, not a professional mechanic.

Toyota engines are some of the easier rebuilds, the castings are nicely made and well machined and the tolerances are close but not silly tight as on a Samarai engine. Almost as easy as a Farmall engine, but the parts weight a lot less :-)

A nightmare rebuild is a '85 Chevy 2.8 liter - a true POS design.

Cheers, Stan

Yep, I fully agree. Over the years I've done major rebuilds on a half dozen engines, bored, ground cranks, bearings, balanced, new pistons, cams, lifters, valve jobs, the works. There's no greater feeling than starting an engine that you have had in pieces. What a fine tribute to a workman to assemble a couple hundred parts properly, and see them perform. The one thing I don't recommend, however, is to re-ring an engine, especially one with miles on it. By the time the new rings "seat" (which they often don't do because of the irregular cylinders), you're likely to have a modest oil burner. If the truck is worth the effort, spend the extra few hundred to bore the cylinders and get new pistons. Tapered, out of round cylinders are a pain in the arse. Sort of ruins an otherwise super rebuild job to leave them. I practice what I preach, even though it's not cheap.

Harold

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

Based (loosely) on 398 000 kilometers on my Mazda B2000...

Pull the engine. You can only get half assed acsess to anything with the engine in the truck.

Did the rod blow up or just eat a bearing? If the rod did not blow, there should be no damage to the block. Decide how cheap you want to be. I'm cheap. I buy my parts at the U-pick wreckers, and I know pretty much what models I can pillage to make my truck run for the basics.

Get a Haynes Manual or Chilton's Guide for your trucks. Some of the info is lame or not very useful, but lots of good info in either. I prefer Haynes, YMMV. CHEAP!

Is the price quoted before or after the core charge or exchange on your block? Or is it a cash and carry price? Depending on the core value, it may be a no-brainer. Con rod bearings are a relatively cheap fix. Likely just a grind on the crank and new bearings. The (babbit?) layer on the rod bearing gets eaten, the shell usually keeps the rod from taking a serious beating. When I did mine, I was able to get the crank ground, purchase the bearings, and a head gasket for well under $400 CDN. Some judicious cleanup while it was apart was done, but no real heavy dissassembly and it now has about 100,000 km since the last blowup. The job can be done without removing the head, if you want to be real cheap. Count on the amount of time spent hauling your parts to and from the machine shops if you want the whole engine done, and factor that into costing it out, as well as your time rebuilding the rest of it. In my experience, automotive machine shops are one of those places that do not seem to charge near what they are worth. If you can be earning more money than you are saving by doing the work yourself, you may be biting yourself on the arse there. My experience has been that bore wear after 250,000 kilometers was negligible. YMMV. Inspect and measure while the crank is being ground. Use the day or two that the crank is out, to clean up the head, decarbon the ring grooves, and whatever else seems to need to be done. Have a good look at the head for cracks between the plug and valves. If you removed the head, that is.

Fear nothing! It's a mechanical device fercryinoutloud! It's not Brain Science, it's rocket surgery!

I would be calling every number in the phone book as relates to enginge rebuilders or automotive machine shops and checking prices. Here in Edmonton I can get a warranteed 350 chev for a lot less than I could rebuild it for. All I have to do is bring my engine in for exchange, pay the man, and drive home to start the install. Same price with a wait if I want my own engine done top to bottom.

Shouldn't be to hard for someone like you. It's all in the details which I know you're good at.

Engine stand without a doubt.

If it was shifting good when it quit don't worry about it. The weak link in these transmissions is the synchro's.

That seems like awfully short life for these engines. Mine had over

That's a tough call. You won't know till you tear it down.

I've got a 81 factory service manual that's your's for the shipping. It won't cover the fuel injection but the rest should be pretty much the same. I've not found anything better than the factory manuals for many things. This one is pretty good.

I've also got a Chiltons but it's not very good.

Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX

I have to agree. As much as I love building up hotrod engines (I have a Chevy small block on the engine stand right now), unless you have experience, or a good bit of otherwise idle time, you'll be dollars and days ahead just buying a rebuilt engine, and getting on with your regular line of business.

Gary

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:58:47 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler wrote in Msg.

In what way are they "illegal"?

--Daniel

You might want to check again. AFAIK, the only reason they would be "illegal" is a failure to meet US emissions standards with JDM accessories. If you're using only the JDM "long block" and installing US approved intake, exhaust, and ECM, they should pass US emission standards as easily as your old engine.

A "certified" shop might not install them because they aren't allowed to install "non-certified" parts, but that doesn't make it illegal for *you* to do it. As long as it passes all mandated emissions checks it can hardly be an "illegal" vehicle.

Later, Joe

Later, Joe

Not insane, just different.

Hadn't thought about that, but how would anyone know it wasn't a "US engine"?