A bench clamp for the Rockchucker

Mine doesn't seem to work that way. I pull shells when the primer seat pressure doesn't feel right. After inspection, I either seat the primer with more vigor or reject case and primer. Color me twit if you will, I'll wear it. My rifle ammo is hand-crafted one round at a time. YMMV

I have no experience at all with primer misfires. I intend to remain so. I'm a bit of a twit about that. I'll agre that primers are fleafarts compared to blasting caps on ringmains attached to HE. I may be a wussy pussy about primers. Works fer me.

Dons new Rockchucker is a new configuration to me as well. Mine has the priming arm out front.

As to bullet swaging..I dont think the Rockchucker is stout enough for anything other than MAYBE .40gr .224 bullets, IMHO.

If you are gonna swage...use a Corbin.

Gunner

It was RCBS's attempt to copy the incredibly sucessful "Lee autoprime"

Gunner

Hi Don,

I still have my Lee Loader. It works, but leaves a bad taste in your mouth, Eh?

It was much more user friendly if you used it with a big vise (or an arbor press) instead of a hammer (grin).

Mine came with a gun a bought and basically just wet my appetite for reloading. I ended up with one of the new at the time Lee Turret presses. They work a whole lot better/nicer. Suspect you did something similar.

Here is a link to the Lee Turret Press:

It was cheap, but worked okay.

Hey! They still have/sell the Lee Loader too. See:

This ought to bring back a few memories and sore fingers :)

Leon, if you do not mind, how much would it cost to reload a 77 Rem Mag round, how much time it takes, and how many times can they be reloaded safely. Also, how much does a decent reloading setup cost.

I never reload anything, and do not even shoot that often, but I should get back into it.

thanks

i

It depends... (grin)

Take a look at the presses I pointed at in the previous post. You need a press (I like turrets), dies (for 77 Rem, what is this? a typo? not one I'm familiar with), method to measure powder (scale, spoon...), method to knock primers out (can be as simple as a pin punch), method to clean cases (tumbler & media or simple as some steel wool and elbow grease), method to cut cases to length, possibly a reloading book with instructions and recipes for powder/bullet combos, case lube, bullets, caps, powder...

On the cheap side probably between $100-200 for one caliber, on up to whatever you would like to spend on it.

You could probably do some scrounging and get some wonderful prices knowing your abilities :)

I would recommend getting a book first though like this:

It has basic reloading instruction (mechanics) and recipes for loading rifle and pistol calibers. My copy is the tenth edition. Maybe someone else has a better recommendation but this book worked okay for me a long time ago ~1985?

I'm sure some of the other's will jump on this question too. I haven't done anything with my stuff for a long time now. The only gun I shoot anymore is the RWS pellet gun...

It is a typo, sorry, I meant 7 mm Rem Mag. I typed 77 instead of 7mm.

Thanks for your interesting reply. 7mm Rem Mag ammo is particularly expensive.

i

Most ammo that isn't used for military or law enforcement is expensive from what I can tell...

I suspected you were interested in 7mm RemMag (grin) but wasn't sure.

The nice thing about reloading your own is that you can build up rounds that aren't offered commercially. I used to load up some 44 mag rounds with #8 bird shot and some 200 gr hollow points in same. At the time you couldn't find 200 gr hollow points in 44 mag anywhere. Easy enough to handload though. You can always use a bit less powder and sometimes get better accuracy than hot rounds when handloading.

I used Midway's site simply because it came up in a quick search and had stuff I wanted to illustrate...

Take a look at this listing of 7mm bullets:

***652***675***9016*** Probably lots of interesting stuff there that you can't just go buy all ready to lock-and-load. They can be hand loaded though with the proper powder & charge.

They have the Speer Reloading Manual I mentioned too, the

13th edition ($18.99):

and the 14th edition ($26.99):

The dominant cost in ammo is brass. New brass costs about half as much as loaded ammo. Brass can usually be reused several times. Good deals can be found on once-fired brass, availablility depends a lot on caliber.

Reloading doesn't really make economic sense unless you shoot fairly often, but (as Leon said) being able to customize loads is also an appeal.

Because you *can*. I can't. The design is just that much different. I have to crush the primer to get the shell clear of the shell holder -- both so I can continue to use the primer seating tool, and so I can put the shell holder back in the press for the next stage of the operation.

Note that a slow crush of the primer is not likely to set it off. It takes a sharp whack, usually -- though the manual for my primer seater warns that if I put the seating rods in rounded end up I am likely to set off a primer while trying to seat it. (I haven't tried that, so I don't know for sure.)

Remember -- with the version which I have, I *can't* extract the shell once the primer is started until it is flush with the back of the case. So my choices are somewhat limited. I'll grant you that if the primer is seated sideways and then crushed it is likely to have grooves which will vent pressure on firing, so I would not be likely to reuse that case -- but I would also not want to throw it out with a damaged primer still in it, so I have to get it out some way or other.

With your experience with the blasting caps, I can understand why you are particularly careful.

FWIW -- a primer, stand-alone, can still be somewhat dangerous. Many years ago, I set one off on a sidewalk by using an 11x14 plastic Fresnel lens to focus sunlight on it. The anvil hit the Fresnel lens, and broke a chip out of the corner. (It was only about 1/16" thick, and acrylic, I think, but I was very glad that it had intercepted the anvil before my eye could. :-)

And I'm not sure what a primer seated sideways in the primer pocket and then crushed would do if cooked off by heat. I suspect that it would launch parts of it out of the primer pocket, but not do any particular additional damage to the case itself.

Note that there have been various styles of practice loads for handguns powered by nothing but primers. Two which come to mind are a red wax which is melted, poured into a pan, and then inserted in the cartridges by using them as cookie cutters, and one which has short red plastic cases and black (Delrin, I think) "bullets". Those are totally reusable, and I only have a set in .38 Special. You are supposed to make a box of cardboard with the target on the front, and a thick towel hung from a rod somewhere behind which absorbs the remaining energy and then drops them to the bottom of the box for collection and reuse. Without the towel, they will go through at least three layers of the typical corrugated cardboard, and would probably be quite uncomfortable if they hit you -- though I have never been tempted to experiment with that. (Just the thought of pointing a firearm with *anything* or even

*nothing* in it at someone who is not in an enemy/attacker status would bother me too much. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

[ ... ]

Absolutely!

I didn't have either available when I got that. My bench vise might open far enough to just barely grip the die for the 38 Special with no shell involved, but no more than that. And that was the only vise that I had back then. My tool collection has grown somewhat since then. What I had then were a 1/4" drill motor (non-reversible constant speed), and a Sabre saw -- end of game. (Of course, this was about 1964 or so.

I got first a C-H press (black wrinkle finish), and then later the RCBS when I spotted one on sale.

With handgun cartridges, I tended to do enough in a batch so the changing of the dies was not a problem. With rifle cartridges (I was doing 8x57 Mauser back then) there were few enough so a turret to reduce the changing would have been nice -- but then I would have had to either have a second press for the handgun ones -- or a set of interchangeable turrets. Towards the end of my frequent shooting I was loading the 8mm rifle cartridges, .38 Special, .22 Jet, and .41 Magnum. I've since acquired a set of dies for .44 Magnum (at a hamfest) for the "just in case" when I get one -- and recently upgraded my .38 Special dies to .357 Magnum carbide dies (which of course can also handle .38 Special).

Same for the C-H -- but the RCBS was more satisfying. I forget who I passed the C-H on to.

Still!

Yep! A good thing that I took them seriously when they recommended safety glasses. :-)

I see some differences:

1) Yellow plastic powder measure instead of turned aluminum one. (I forget what powder and bullet weight that was for -- probably minimum on both.) 2) Instead of the seating depth stop being a ring on the seating/priming tool, there is now an adjustment of the length of the die. 3) They claim a plastic case. What I remember was a cardboard case with a styrofoam insert with pockets for every tool.

I'm amazed that nobody has made them discontinue that -- given the potential for not only lead poisoning, but mercury poisoning when the primers spit at your hands. :-)

I think that I have all of the parts of the Lee Loader set around, except for the box and styrofoam case -- but I just can't be motivated to be sure. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

According to Ignoramus21381 :

Well ... it has been a long time since I was seriously buying the tooling, but let me see whether I can come up with a list of what you will want -- pretty much irrespective of caliber other than slight changes in the dies.

0) A reloading manual -- lists the loads for all of the cartridges you may consider. *Don't* start without this. And read it through thoroughly. 1) A reloading press. Look at RCBS for nice ones. 2) A set of dies for each caliber you wish to reload. Straight sided cartridges (mostly pistol) take three dies, necked cartridges (mostly rifle) take only two. 2a) Also -- you will need a shell holder -- it fits the top of the ram in the press and is specific to hold the base of the cartridge you are reloading. As you add sets of dies for other calibers, you will need to add shell holders as well. 3) A way to measure powder. You will need a good scale calibrated in grains (*not* grams).

In addition, for convenience, you will want a powder dispenser which can be preset to deliver consistent amounts of powder.

For really accurate loads, you will want to add a powder trickler. You set the dispenser to throw just under weight into the pan of the scale, then you use the trickler to add it a grain (particle -- not weight) or two at a time. (If you are going to the this careful, plan to weigh each box of bullets, one at a time, and sort them into weight categories.)

4) Trays with pockets to hold the cartridges upright either end up. You store them open end down until you load the powder into them. 5) A means for seating primers. One way should come with the press, but others are more convenient to use. 6) A pad for lubricating the cases prior to sizing -- unless you are using carbide sizing dies. (Be careful of over-lubrication, as this can collapse dents in the shoulders of the cases.

Now -- beyond this, as you go into more reuse of the cartridges, you will want:

7) To anneal the case (except for the base) every so often. A torch and a shallow pan of water will suffice here. You stand them upright, heat the upper part, and then tip them over. 8) A tumbler to polish the brass (not really needed, but it makes the rounds look nicer. 9) A way to measure the cartridge length -- as it stretches with firing -- more so with the higher power ones. 10) A case length trimming tool -- for when they get too long. 11) A de-burring tool -- for both the ID and OD of the case mouth. 12) A tool to clean out and reshape the primer pocket every so often. Especially the first time after removing crimped-in primers in military cartridges. 13) For the high-powered cartridges -- a case neck reamer, because when the cases stretch, they also flow more metal into the neck area, so eventually the bullet gets too tightly gripped between the OD of the bullet and the ID of the chamber neck.

Then come the supplies -- recurring costs -- obviously different for different calibers:

14) Bullets -- for your rifle, they will pretty much have to be jacketed bullets -- and there are lots of choices for the popular calibers. Also there are several weights in each caliber. 15) Powder (of course). Probably several different ones, until you come up with a load which you particularly like. Different powders are better for 16) Primers. There are four sizes -- small pistol, large pistol, small rifle, and large rifle -- plus higher powered versions for certain loads. Your choice here will be pretty much made for you by the cartridge you are loading. 17) Case lube (to go with the pad way up above -- unless you are using carbide dies again.

Other possible things:

18) If you want to go this route, you can get a heavier duty press (such as the RCBS RockChucker) and special bullet swaging dies, and you and make your own jacketed bullets. In this case, you will also want a lead melting pot, and a way to cast the soft lead into chucks the right size. They are then inserted in the raw jackets, and the press forms them into your final jacketed bullet plus a little bit of lead squirting out. (Assuming that bullet swaging dies are still available. There are enough excellent commercial bullets, and ones with features which you likely can't make, so this is probably not as popular as it once was. 19) If you want to make a *lot* of rounds at a time, you might be interested in a turret press, or even a motorized progressive loader. But for one bolt-action rifle, I doubt that you will be into this range.

I'm sure that I have forgotten something or several things.

You can often find sets of dies on eBay -- even though they don't (can't) sell the firearms or the ammo itself -- and perhaps not the components either. You can probably also find good presses on eBay, and the scales, and many of the other accessories. RCBS is a good starting brand, and is my choice.

You could go to the RSBS web site and download a pdf copy of their current catalog to give you a feel for new prices of quality items.

Enjoy, DoN.

Oooohhhh -- the press! Yes, I expect the same would be true in my press. I was speaking of the separate hand primer tool.

It does take a rather sharp and concentrated impact to set off a primer. I just don't like surprises that go bang.

I agree.

Huh! I know from an inadvertently powderless "squib" round that the primer alone didn't have enough pop to push a .45 FMJ bullet the length of the bore. It was a pretty tight fit though, a cleaning rod wouldn't push the bullet out. I had to use a long piece of 3/8" brass rod in the shop to clear the bore. Perhaps the delrin bullets are a looser fit.

The non-enemy person you pointed it at might also bother you some.

[ ... ]

No -- the problem was in the hand primer -- but it uses the shell holder from the press. At least mine does, but yours (as shown in the catalog) has its own "universal" shell holder -- which you can disassemble at need.

Understood. Neither do I.

[ ... ]

The OD just barely touches the lands. It will almost drop through the bore.

He certainly should. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned Gunner Asch wrote on Thu, 26 Jul 2007

16:08:21 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Except when you are the one who has to move it.

"Horse high, pig tight and bull strong" That was the family design spec since great grandpa's day.

pyotr

-- pyotr filipivich Typos, Grammos and da kind are the result Emmanations of Penumbra Fortesque Consulting: Teaching Pigs to Sing since 1986.

Primer,$15 per 1000.....1.5 cents Bullets, depending...lets say $19 per hundred,,,19 cents Powder...65 grs....7000 grs per pound $21 a pound .,19 cents

Cost will be .40 cents a round

Factory ammo runs between a dollar and 2 dollars each in boxes of 20

Takes about 45 minutes to set up that caliber, get the powder measure calibrated and load 20 rds, taking time to pet the cat in your lap. If you are already set up..about a minute each if you are loading 50 rds

7mm Mag cases if neck sized and kept at reasonable pressures, should last at least 6 reloads. Often 10 or more depending on pressures, powder used and so forth.

Ive got 3006 cases that are on their 30th refill. Or more.

Gunner, YMMV

I have 31 reloading manuals, going back to 1899

I use them all, depending on powder, bullet and cartridge.

Try to find reloading data for 9.5 Vom Hoff in the current Horneday.

Phil Sharrp...no problem

Gunner

There are two reasons to handload

Cost..from half to less than a tenth of factory costs

Accuracy. You cannot tune the rifle (usually...to the ammo..but you can tune the ammo to the rifle.

EVERY firearm is an individual. Like women....

A firearm that shoots a 5 shot group at 100 yrds that measures 3" with factory ammo..may well shoot a 1" group with tuned handloads. Or smaller

Gunner

Check Ebay

Gunner