Apple - VS Made in America?

I read the whole article in the paper today. One thing to be aware of is that their (NYT's or Apple's, it was not clear) definition of "engineer" is expansive, as it includes people with associate (2-year) degrees; such degrees are common preparation for a technician in the US, while engineers universally require a 4-year degree.

By the way, the glass they were talking about is the "Gorilla Glass" that Corning has been boasting about.

Joe Gwinn

part of the problem is the elimination of shop classes for those so inclined, both due to fear of possible lawsuits and because "everybody should go to a 4 year college" - the result is a couple of generations of people who generally have no clue about tools, their use, and so on - it is hard to teach someone who has never held a screwdriver and never held a job to show up and assemble something correctly. And, we insist on "good" jobs - e.g. white collar. Not all people even like white collar work, and certainly not all people are able to do quality white collar work - so we have restricted options in education and training and now cannot be surprised that the results are that industry goes where the ability lies.

The probnlem, Bill, is that we started laying off those "middle-level engineers" in the 1970s and the job market for them since that time has been unstable as hell.

Not many kids are going to stake their future on the prospects of being undercut by a $10,000/year "engineer" from India or an $8,000/year one from China. I can't blame them.

I can't understand why anyone would buy a smart phone that you can't easily change out the battery. That doesn't seem very smart.

Working 12 hour days and living in barracks is something that would only work where you are importing peasants from the countryside that need a place to live. What are they going to live in when they get old and need to retire? Oh, I know, when they can't put out you ship them back to the hovel they came from. That is if some mega plant didn't appropriate the familys farm land or pollute the water.

Wasn't it just a little while ago we were reading about Apple iphone workers having to sign a no suicide pledge?

As to the US not producing workers willing to work, I've spent most of my life working with people that put their hearts into doing a good job. I'm speaking of middle level and down since those are who I rub shoulders with.

That plant that put on a new wing for cutting glass. I wonder how long it would have taken to get permits to even start building here? Time is money in business. Regardless of labor costs, just getting started and done has value.

Wes

The starting salary for most engineers is about $55,000 a year or a bit above $1000 per week. I think most kids that have an aptitude for engineering or science don't worry about being undercut by engineers from India or China.

=20 Dan

The USA doesn't have a comparative advantage in manufacturing anything. Given the appallingly low national educational achievement level, coupled with the developed world's absolutely worst work ethic, it's hard to think of anything in which the USA has an absolute advantage, and those industries where we have a comparative advantage tend to be at the bottom end of the sophistication scale. In terms of marketable goods and services, the USA is nowhere close to the lead in anything.

change out the

middle level and

But if it's done in the US, not enough value to justify the comparative cost.

Don't forget one big advantage the Chinese have. Without having to worry about environmental or health permits, and with complete control over the media and public protests, you can just sweep dead or disabled workers under the rug.

Globalization opens up all kinds of opportunities.

They should. That's the way it's been going for a couple of decades.

BTW, Gorilla Glass WILL scratch if you carry the device in your pocket with keys. DAMHIKT.

change out the

middle level and

Regardless

Yes it does. While I'm not a big fan of over regulating things because I want people in this country to have a decent place to work and live in, at some point we need to look at how 'free trade' is conducted. If we want clean air and water, but our regulations export the work to China or some other country, do we allow importation of products using dirty methods to just flow in freely without some sort of tariff to negate the bottom feeding?

We can also use the same framework on how workers are treated. I don't have a problem competing with Germany, Finland, England or any of the nations that have a similar economic, worker protection and environmental framework in place.

Wes

They do not get old. Usually they die well before.

But it's clear that Apple is looking for the cheapest, biggest, most "flexible" workforce and more vocational training is not going to match what Foxconn can offer.

They're stupid or stupidly optimistic if they don't worry about it, unless they have the aptitude to be one of the very best in the world. Very, very few have that aptitude. But then a lot of kids think they'll play professional sports too.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

change out the

middle level and

Regardless

regulations export

I think those sentiments are shared by most of us. You know I studied trade enough to write some lengthy articles about it, and I'm still on mailing lists from the policy institutes that study it. I expect I'll be writing about it again some time soon.

But I have no answers. All I know is that it is much more complex, and a much more difficult problem, than most people realize. We are NOT in a position to do much about it unilaterally. We're the ones who started this whole thing, at least in modern times. Now we're reaping the results.

It concerns me but there are historical reasons to believe that it will settle itself. Like the weather, it's going to happen. There isn't a lot we can do to shape it. But we can be a lot smarter about responding to it.

that really is misleading at best. Look at our scores in science and math. Look at the genuinely pathetic quality of science and math teachers (most of them), who couldn't explain a differential equation or even simple newtonian motion beyond the basics in a textbook. We as a society have chosen to reward superficiality and instantaneous profits and to play down intelligence and long term thinking. We are seeing the results.

So they go to a four year college and graduate with $100,000 plus debt.

Then take an entry level job that gets sold to a $10,000 "engineer" from India.

Hell of a way to run a rail road, huh?

Richard

Well, there is always politics...

The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

What you don't realize that regardless of what you think the workers you are referring to believe that they are being treated well and that they have bettered their lives by getting a job in the factory.

In fact, nearly all of them come from an agricultural background and are pretty damned sure that they have found a better life then back on the farm (I seem to remember something similar happening in the U.S. some years ago. In fact wasn't there a song written about it?)

In 1928 Hoover campaigned for president on the slogan "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage" but it is doubtful if anyone can get elected in today's United States on a pittance like that and I really wonder whether things have reached a point that the U.S. economy can no longer support the luxurious life style that seems to have become the norm.

-- John B.

Plumber. Orthodontist. Lawyer, maybe.

Selling Xmas trees or rebuilding alternators don't require any kind of degree. Investing four to 8 years and lots of additional costs into getting engineering credentials is a big expense.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany