Mosler safe combination

Then yes, I'd bet that the com can be user-customized. It's really quite easy to do. One of my duties as crypto officer was to periodically change the com on the crypto safe. I'm pretty sure those were Mosler safes. All I needed was a screwdriver.

Found this. It's worth a try.....Paul

How to Change the Combination to a Mosler Safe B. C. Bryant

Instructions Things You'll Need: a.. Safe key Current combination to the safe a.. Step 1: Locate the change mark. Look for the change mark on the dial ring around 11 o'clock. b.. Step 2: Dial the combination that currently opens the Mosler safe on this change mark. Do not return to "0" on the dial ring. Simply stop on the final number to the current combination. c.. Step 3: Locate the flat rod. On the left side of the safe, near the front of the drawer, you will see a small, flat rod. This rod must be up in order for the handle to raise. Having the flat rod up will allow you to lock the Mosler safe with the drawer open. d.. Step 4: Redial the current combination in the same way described in Step 2. e.. Step 5: Insert the key into the back of the lock and turn halfway; that is, turn the key halfway around,

180 degrees. Do not complete the full circle. f.. Step 6: Dial the new combination starting at the 11 'o clock mark discussed in Step 1. Be sure to stop on the last number. Do not use a number less than 20 for the last number. g.. Step 7: Turn key back and remove the key from the lock.

Though I do know of one individual that used a hammer. Didn't work, but he got to pay for repairs.

For normal people, a screwdriver and the current combination is all that's needed.

First and foremost. If is is open don't close or lock until the combination thing is well in hand. Second - All the details needed are online. The combination lock is probably a Sargent & Greenleaf. If it is Mosler it is probably an elderly combination lock.

Remove the inner panel of the door that the combination lock is on, remove the combination lock and take it to a GOOD safe place and have it serviced.

Unload the safe after removing the combination lock and put it wherever. The mechanical work to service the safe minus the combination lock is not that difficult.

While looking things over keep ypour eyes open for the serial number. I have a 50 year old Mosler that took a while to find the brass tag that was the serial number. The number was not on the handle as several indicated.

More later after I read the 20 some replies you have.

Bob AZ

Just be careful handling it, some of the fancier types have a plate of glass as part of the locking mechanism, if it gets shocked and broken, the locking bolts get driven outwards and you're cooked. Keeps the hammer and chisel types at bay.

A class C that only weight 400 lbs. Not likely.

Oh, you _could_, if you wanna spring a couple grand for a crew and some heavy equipment. ;-)

Good Luck! Rich

?Won? With eBay I think you mean you were the high bidder; but is that winning...or losing?

If it is anything like the containers I worked on, yes.

First rule: Put a bolt or padlock through the drawer side so it can NOT be accidently closed...... until you are good and ready.

Access: The lock may well have a sheet-metal cover behind it [backside of the drawer-front]. Further, on a good container, there may be blocks of lead behind the lock case. (They deter x-raying from outside.) Lift them out out.

Tools: There should be a keyhole on the lock. If so it IS key-settable. Obtaining a change-key for that model lock is left as an exercise for the student. AFAIK there is no restriction on their sale; it's worthless unless you are already inside the container. You can likely make one.

Wheels: The lock has wheels with inner and outer parts. The wheels may be metal or Delron, again a defense against X-raying. The outer part has notches that the gate must fall into to open the lock. With three wheels, all three must line up their notches for the gate to drop. (Some uber-secure locks had 4 wheels.)

How: What the key does is decouple the wheel inner and outer sections. You first line up the hole in the wheels so the key goes in; then give it a quarter turn, THEN dial in the new combination, Then lock the wheels, pull the key and TEST THE NEW COMBINATION.

Then TEST THE NEW COMBINATION.

You can see all this with the back cover of the lock off. Note there's a gotcha to keep the gate from dropping with the cover off, but you can still spin the wheels.

Did I mention... TEST THE NEW COMBINATION before you think of closing the drawer. Where will you keep the new combination written down?

That's easy: Just drop it on your floor and it'll find its -own- way down into the basement, Ig.

I wonder if the 400-pounder is just a firearm safe.

-- Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air... -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'd keep it in my wallet, with my ID, certified Birth Certificate, combination to my bike lock, and debit card.

Cheers! Rich

O.K. This is a form of security file cabinet -- and the walls are likely asbestos embedded in concrete. If you want to make it into a gun safe -- assuming long guns, you are going to have to cut out the shelves, exposing yourself to the concrete/asbestos dust.

The thing is designed to resist fire for some amount of time, without letting the contents burn up.

It is certainly an older style of lock, but I think that maybe my description will still work.

Is that really an electrical fitting on the back? If so, what does it connect to? (Or is that a bottom view?)

The *lock* was from Mosler, but it is not clear whether the file-cabinet/safe was also. Mosler (and others) sell locks to other makers.

If you don't have a key to fit the key lock on the front, that is something the locksmith can do for you.

Enjoy, DoN.

[ ... ]

Looking at the photos, I think that it is older -- before the S&G patent expired so Mosler could also make key-settable locks -- but he will have to open the back of the door to be sure of this.

Come to think of it -- there is no resetting index visible on the dial, so it will have to be disassembled to reset the combination.

[ ... ]

There is another gotcha on some which will permanently lock the bolt in position if you do manage to withdraw it with the cover off. (You can reset it -- as long as the cover is off. If the door is closed, you are out of luck.

One thing which we did at work was to memorize words (or sometimes short sentences for several safes in a row), and look the letters in the words up on a phone dial -- two letters per combination number. (A few digs at certain employees were included in those sentences. :-) This does eliminate combinations with ones or zeros in them -- unless you take the two missing letters from the phone dial (Q and Z) and mentally put them on 1 and 0. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

Don't forget the spare car and house keys, along with the list of all your Internet usernames and passwords.

-- Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air... -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

I only have one house key; I keep it in my left front pants pocket. And I don't have a car. They say "life sucks without a car," but I'm doing embarrassingly well for a man who's ostensibly penniless. The bike serves double duty - I have everything I need within a mile or so, and I get my daily exercise on it. :-)

And, possibly stupidly, I only ever use two passwords, that are really, really easy for me to remember, but unlikely to be guessed, albeit a dedicated password sniffer would get past just about any password, eventually.

And I have another one that I use if I need real security, that's also really really easy for me to remember, but uses several special characters.

Did you know that you can embed ASCII blanks (0x20) in a password?

But then again, I don't really need any security - to paraphrase Mr. Youngman, "Take my identity - please!" ;-)

My PIN isn't written down anywhere, but I have $0.07 in my account, so no big deal.

The bank recently gave me the option for overdraft coverage. I said, "Nah, if I don't have enough money, just decline the card."

Cheers! Rich

Don,

My guess is that this is not a file safe but an equipment safe used when COMSEC equipment has to be left keyed. Notice what appears to be conduit going into the safe. Fire was probably not a major concern.

Kevin Gallimore

Oh, very nice. I betcha that dates back to the 60's and may have even been AEC era.

You gonna buy the Pagoda when that gets surplused?

Tim.

Just roll it into your living room directly over the spot you want it in your basement. Voila!

Steve

Mosler locks were not GSA approved, so I never worked on such. (Some agencies had waivers for same inside well-cotrolled areas.) But I agree that no resetting index is indicative.

The S&G's had several "relock" schemes. One was a solder blob; heat the box and it melts. The other was the the back cover relock. Lose either and drilling is pointless.

The new boxes use hardplate that is {allegedly} undrillable. The SOP is now a cutting wheel. It clamps on the top, and pivots down; cutting a ~0.75" wide vertical slot in each side of the front AND the 1" bar behind it. That gives you slack to push the bars inward and open the drawer. Then replace the drawerfront, reusing the untouched lock...AFTER setting and recording the combination.

Record on the SF-600, a 4x6 size form with several layers and partial carbon paper. The result is one copy with the combination, one without.

Interesting! Most of the security file cabinets where I worked (an Army R&D lab) were Mosler -- over a period from about 1968 (when I first started working there) through 1997 (when I retired). Only a very few really old ones were from other sources.

[ ... ]

Hmm ... the S&Gs which I worked with (a surplus lot of used security file cabinets) had only the back cover one. Of course, put the thing inside a fire-resistant file cabinet (which these were) and there is not much likelyhood of an attack by heat -- other than a real fire. The Mosler ones would probably die from the wheels melting (Delrin, not the brass layers of the S&G key resettable ones.)

O.K. That is an approach which I had not thought of. But the only locked container with no known combination that I've had to deal with was one of the group from the surplus sale. A friend and I worked together on this to get a security file cabinet each -- and fix up and sell the rest. (A lot of twelve went for what we were willing to pay for two, and the smaller lots went for a lot more per cabinet than we were willing to pay. :-) Anyway -- his sister had a boyfriend, and he closed and locked the only one which did not have the factory combination set. Since the intention was to fix up and resell, drilling was not a real option, let alone the abrasive disk which you mention above. At least, there was nothing in it which we needed. :-)

[ ... ]

Since it is Iggy who has the safe in question, and he is not working at a classified facility, he probably does not have access to the form (granted, I had forgotten the details of the form, myself), nor does he have a proper place to store the form. (I guess a safe deposit box might work, if he has one. :-)

BTW -- are you sure about the form number? A quick Google search turns up lots about a SF-600 -- but these are a medical form, not what we are talking about.

Ah! Found it! SF-700 is the one in question. The following URL will let others know the handling of such forms, and there is a link on that page to an image of the form with dire warnings that you are

*not* supposed to use the image, because it doesn't have the proper carbon paper setup. (not to mention the built-in envelope. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

Domestic waivers in low-security locations were likely SOP. (I assume you had no TS or SCI material in your containers.)

The relock was to defeat the foe with a torch. Of course, you could cut the drawer front off, but "all locks are time locks; some just take longer.." is true. And the location was such that you better be quick AND quiet; otherwise the Marine with a sidearm and an 870 shotgun would be making sure you didn't have any need to leave quickly.

I can't be sure but looking at

has revived old neurons. See the pictures on Page 1. The lever just above the words "Torque Adjusting Gear" is held depressed by the back cover; if it's not pushed in, the other end blocks the bolt from retracting. When the cover is in place, no problem. BUT, ISTM the inside of the back cover has the "solder" button; heat it, it melts and the relock lever moves. {It's not solder; it was lower temp; an antimony mix or ???}

Also note at the bottom of the wheel, you can see the change clutch. It's the square hole. And is a change key.

I can't find a better shot but at least

is in color.

Delrin wheels were options on S&G 8400 & 8500's.

BTW, the 8400 have a thumbturn you twist after entering the combination; 8500's you PUSH and then turn to open the gate.