Moving machines

Hello all,
Is is just me, or does the metalworking industry seem deaf to hobbyists and other home-shop customers? Put another way, what is the correct
approach to getting a machine off a truck in one piece. I am by no means fixed on the Enco lathe, but I asked them about shipping, and have gotten mixed signals about a lift gate. I can understand "it's too heavy for that" but it seems strange to me that companies that sell heavy items do such a poor job of giving consistent answers to customers.
I have an engine hoist and an F-150 that would be able to cope with safely getting a 1000 lb lathe down my sloping driveway, but going from flat bed to the ground is another story. Control over shipping was a big factor in choosing Rutland for my mill-drill, though I will admit the process was not free of surprises. It worked out well, but proved I was right to have respect for the weight of what was arriving.
How do YOU handle a ton or so slathered on cosmoline sitting on a truck outside your home? Do I need to buy a fork lift to be one of the guys? :) There are manual stackers that have suitable capacity, but they appear to be a lot more expensive than the 500-700 lb variety I have been considering for general use.
Bill
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You can rent a forklift.
i
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Bill Schwab wrote:

Here's what I do:
http://www.tinyisland.com/images/temp/gantry.jpg
(By the way the beam raises up about five feet.)
And here's what I used to do:
http://www.tinyisland.com/images/ihstand.jpg
Another thing you can do is to have the freight shipped to a warehouse, where you go pick it up. Don't use your F-150's bed. Pull a low trailer. That way your engine hoist will have a chance.
I picked a Bridgeport mill off a low trailer once using a cheap 2-ton engine hoist.
GWE
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It may be their trucking company of choice doesn't offer much in the way of high-cap lift gates. Check with other trucking companies in your area to see if they offer heavy lift gates and what they would charge to re-deliver to you if you have the lathe delivered to them; it might be the cheapest choice.
If this works you may also avoid some fork lift anxiety.
dennis in nca
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rigger wrote:

If it's a 1,000# lathe, I don't see how any trucking company would have a lift gate that it was too heavy for. I don't think I've seen a lift gate under 2,500# capacity.
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Pete, all,
As usual, you guys are great, and I will tear into the entire thread tomorrow.

Interesting. Enco's web site said 2000 lb was the cutoff, which got me reconsidering the 8x36 mill (sorry to jump around between lathe and a future mill - I'm trying to figure out how to do this "safe and smart"). I expected no contest to a lift gate for the lathe, but got precisely that. I will try again though, as I recognized the voice as being associated with what a friend of mine calls "a thousand points of no".
I took a few minutes to call about rentals. Got a really friendly guy who says my best fork lift option would be to let him deliver it (damn thing weighs 10k lb!), one day for just under $400, just under $500 for two days. From the sound of it, one day should work as long as I know the machine is arriving that day. Anyway, that's got to be overkill for a 1000 lb lathe, but perhaps reasonable for a mill. Though at one point I had a local moving company that would receive and redeliver for around $500 IIRC. Probably a winner for a mill, at least so far.
More to come. Thanks again!
Bill
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Seems like an awful lot of money for something most of us probably do ourselves. $400 or $500 will buy you a lot of tooling. If you're clever enough to run a lathe, you're clever enough to get the thing off the truck and into your shop.
Find a local farmer with a loader. Roll it off onto cribbing and lower it a block at a time. Slide it down a ramp. Have it delivered to a local terminal and then load it onto a truck or trailer of your own, as the delivery driver probably won't want to stand around all day while you get it off his truck. Just be aware that lathes are topheavy - make sure it is securely bolted to a pallet or timber frame wide enough to keep it from tipping.
Interesting that you can rent a 10,000 pound forklift for a day and have it delivered and picked up for less than the moving company wants just to deliver a 1,000 pound lathe, no?
John Martin
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John,

Precisely what we're figuring out how to do. :)

I'm nervous enough about trying to coordinate a trucking company and a rental service. Leaning on people with other priorities is unlikely to work, even if I knew a farmer. Besides, with our drought conditions, farmers are probably in a really bad mood. Though I suppose that could make them eager to pick up some extra cash.
> Roll it off onto cribbing and

The terminal idea is a good one. One possibility is to have the lathe delivered to work (aka home of the Gators) and get it into my pickup from there. So far, I know of a scissor lift, but it is on the other end of the hospital from the loading dock. Crossing the building with 1000 lb of cast iron is not a way to make friends, and there would be other logistic problems. If there is a scissor lift at the dock, it might work. Naturally, I would clear it in advance.

A forklift is (or should be) overkill for a lathe. I am also viewing this, to some extent, as a rehearsal for receiving a mill. I handled the mill-drill, but with not too much margin thanks to a sloping driveway and other seemingly small details.
Bill
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You should be able to unload a 1,000 lbs lathe from a pickup using a "shop crane", a.k.a. "engine hoist". You can make this even easier by removing various parts from the lathe. It is not really a "big deal". You have to be careful and make sure that the center of gravity of the lathe is inside the perimeter of crane legs and everything is properly prevented from moving. As a precaution, I always throw a couple of bags of soil on the back of the crane when lifting heavy stuff on a driveway.
I loaded a Clausing 8530 mill on my pickup using my crane. See
http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/packing/clausing/
Observe proper precautions, that is, go slow, do not stand under load, keep things as low as possible, think about what can go wrong, etc.
i
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Iggie,

I have just such a crane, which I bought initially to handle my mill, and now can't imagine how I ever got by w/o one :)
> It is not really a "big

Sandbags are a good idea.

Let's see if I'm following. You started out by using the hoist to remove the head. Then I guess you removed the table and knee either w/o the crane or with it and then re-hoisted the head. No accusation - just hoping I'm not missing the obvious. Were there any tricks to load balancing the table and knee? Any tricks to attaching to them?
Did you hoist the base and column? Are there holes for that purpose? I would not expect much trouble clearing a 4" palette. But then you apparently cleared a 3 ft pickup bed. Were there any tricks to that? You appear to even have done it with the palette thrown in there. How did that work?
Then you hoisted the head, table and knee into position on top of the truck. Again I start to wonder about height. Did you have trouble getting the knee over its way? Then you added components and built a box around it. Wood blocks under the knee to help support it are no surprise.
Any concerns about being so far back on the truck bed? Top-heaviness of the box? What did you do to secure it to the bed?
If you don't mind saying, what was the goal, and/or destination? Was the idea to remove it via forklift?

Understood. I did a fairly good job of that with my mill-drill, but found that I was correct to question the guy telling me not to worry about it. Also, the lathe will weigh more than the mill-drill, so some extra planning won't hurt.
Thanks,
Bill
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I cannot imagine living without one either.

I used topsoil, but it is the same thing. It never hurts and can possibly save me from the consequences of unintentionally doing something stupid.

I do not actually remember. I know that I took it off my truck with the head attached. I then cleaned it, used a little and resold on eBay. ($850 bought me that mill and a Clausing lathe, I sold the lathe for $500 and the mill for $1,800, the buyer paid me also big money to crate the mill).

Worked OK.
I lifted it and then drove my truck underneath.

I think that it was the rec.crafts.metalworking suggestion.

Tiedowns.
The goal was to deliver to terminal.
i
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rigger wrote:

This is what I was going to recommend -- once you're shipping stuff that's bigger than what UPS is willing to carry you have to deal with trucking companies, and their coverage is regional, not national.
I'm lucky in that I have relatives who own a shop that regularly ships by truck, so I can just have stuff shipped there. They put it in my pickup, then I take it here, scratch my head, and ask "how in heck am I going to get this out without breaking it???"
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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Tim,

I can almost match that with help from UF. Receiving works great. I will investigate their options for getting things into my pickup. So far, I moved a healthy sized compressor and what amounted to a horizontal freezer to my chairman's house for ultimate retrieval by the company that loaned it to us. To get on the truck, we used a lift on the opposite side of the building from our dock, and then muscled the items down from the truck at his house - a lathe would take more thought on the way down.
I'll bite: how do you get stuff out of your pickup w/o breaking it? What is the heaviest item you would put in an F-150? It is surprising to me how many times I've handled 900-1000 lb loads in less than a year that I've owned it. Based on that, I would not expect trouble with the lathe, other than some care to avoid tearing/puncturing the bed liner (or worse yet the bed itself) with a concentrated load. Is it reasonable to expect a palette to provide enough protection?
The sloped driveway will not bother my truck. With it backed up against the garage, I should be able to ramp it down using a come-along. Currently, the bed liner covers the cleat holes, so I would probably want to fix that first. I didn't do it :) I found a 96 F-150 w/ 75k miles, regular cab and manual tranny (both pluses in my book), and only minorly abused - too good of a deal to pass up, even with a brain-dead liner. If my engine hoist can get high enough to lift the lathe off the bed, and w/o hitting the garage ceiling, then so much the better.
If any of that sounds unrealistic, please speak up.
Bill
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When I bought my Enco lathe several years ago, I paid around $50 extra (to Enco) for "lift gate service" which amounted to a regular tractor trailer delivering the lathe and a flatbed tow truck attempting to unload and slide it off. The tow truck driver (which the trucking company hired, not me) was inexperienced and had to call for a forklift from his towing company (which fortunately they had). If I had to do it again, I would have the lathe delivered to a local rigger, and have the rigger deliver and unload it at my convenience for around $500. Obviously not cheap, but the least hassle.
If you want cheap, try to find a place where you can rent a drop-deck trailer (ie. the bed can lower all the way to the ground). Then see if Enco will deliver to a local terminal. You pick up from the terminal and have them load your trailer with their forklift. Maybe even have them remove the pallet with the forklift (by lifting the lathe bed using some wood blocks, or with a sling, both of which you supply).
You can also hire a flatbed tow truck with a driver that has experience unloading machines. But expect to pay for several hours of his time while you and he wait for the tractor trailer to show up. You could also send him to the local terminal.
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I agree that a rollback wrecker with an experienced driver is about the best way to move a piece of heavy machinery into (or out of) a ground level garage. Unless the freight terminal is far away, sending the rollback to the terminal is probably the best option.
Here's my buddy "Animal" moving a large furnace shell out of my shop. (Animal has the pony tail, I have the shiny spot where the pony tail used to be.) I wouldn't want him dating my daughter, but he's never made me nervous moving anything, and I don't recall ever paying more than $150 for a half-day job.
--
Ned Simmons

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wrote:
and the link...
http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmons/news/Furnace06asm.jpg
--
Ned Simmons

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Ned,

The only trick to what you show is that the tailer would be too long to back up against the garage, meaning there would be a need to cope with some driveway slope, and a small climb into the garage. I do not (yet anyway) have a place to anchor a come-along to pull into the garage.

I'm hearing three times that to receive and re-deliver.
Bill
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Ned,

BTW, Animal reminds me of the guy who first taught me to run a mill.
Bill
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Iggy and I along with a few friends used a Bobcat with forks on it to get a Bridgeport mill off of his trailer and into my garage. Now, a few of us had to sit on the end of the Bobcat as it was lifting the rear wheels off the ground. There is no easy answer. A gantry is ideal but how many of us have on in the shop? I wish I had one. An engine hoist would have bent in half if we tried that one.... The price of having cool tools I guess.... I won't move any time soon simply due to the size of some of the gear and tool boxes in my shop. To move all the shop stuff a Rigging company was 10K and that was from NC to Chicago just to drop it in place.... I guess I need a printing press for cash next! I feel your pain Bill. That's just how it is.
Respects,
Rob
Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL.
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"RDF" wrote: (clip) I guess I need a printing press for cash next! (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ They are heavy too.
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