I had the front end of a tilt bed tow truck 3'+ off the ground when
unloading a large generator. The look on the driver's face was
priceless. We gently removed the load from the back with a pair of big
jacks and lowered the front of the truck back to the ground.
Nope, 1,000# is pretty manageable. When it gets over 2,000# then you
start to tax "normal" home shop rigging supplies.
That's just the kind of thing I am hoping to learn. Some questions are:
What are the best options for DIYing a 1000 lb lathe into and out of a
pickup? Is it reasonable to do w/o a trailer? I might have to ask some
follow up questions because my driveway isn't the friendliest.
How sharp is the 2000 lb cutoff? Would you rig a mill at that weight,
or seek help? I am asking because I might decide to alter my shopping
list. My position has been to insist on a 12" cross travel, but there
are 8x36 mills that weigh under 1700 lb - I like that, especially if I
were to remove a component or two. Enco does not sell them, but there
are mills that at least are advertised as weighing 2000 lb and having a
12 inch cross travel. If a 2000 lb machine is greatly more manageable
to a hobbyist than would be even a 2400 lb machine, I want to know that,
likewise if 2000 lb is just a bit too much for DIY.
To those who would suggest a benchtop knee to me, I counter by observing
that cross travel is smaller than I have on my mill-drill. I would have
to think carefully before taking that hit. An 8x36 with a 9"+ cross
travel might be worth a look, especially if I can reasonably expect to
be able to rig it myself. If I move a long distance, then
selling/re-buying or trucking are the obvious options. But I have
always slightly cheated the costs of local moves with some elbow grease.
If I give up that option with machines, I want to understand it up
front. Also, I can't help but think that a machine might be better off
being broken down and moved in pieces by its owner vs. being moved by
people who might not have our respect for iron.
Does that help?
Shipping terminal is best for getting it into pickup.
Getting out would be done with a "shop crane", especially if you try
to take off all removable parts.
I would not try to unload a 2,000 lbs anything. I paid someone to
deliver my Bridgeport and I am very happy with that decision.
A very risky thing to do since "Properly fastened" and properly
supported can be complex. Basically the hoist needs an independent
support structure to carry the load and not rely on the building
structure for anything but lateral support. Spending the $500 or so on
Harbor Freights small gantry is a much better idea and the repair cost
when you collapse the garage ceiling and the roof or room above it will
be a lot more than $500.
That is exactly what I was saying with a properly fastened hoist.
Spending the $500 or so on
Gantry cranes can be very dangerous if you are not familiar with using
them. If you are moving a load and you hit a small bump it is very
possible that the gantry will be pulled over by the swinging weight
caused by the sudden stoppage of the gantry.
I will correct what I said...... If you have no experience in moving
heavy loads don't attempt it..... get a company with a rollback to move
it for you. It will probably cost you a lot less than a rigger.
You are making some Really Huge Assumptions without knowing a single
thing about the structure you suggest be used as a lifting point. And
it's rash assumptions like that which get people hurt or killed, when
the building comes down on them.
But that's okay, we know you wouldn't dare try it yourself. But
it's real easy to make a Usenet posing for some other schlub to do it
at his house. ;-)
It might be doable IF there's a suitable heavy wood structural beam
(Say a 6"x16" supporting a set-back 2nd floor room) already right
where you need it...
and IF you can rig a suitable pick point fitting to spread the load
evenly from a lifting eye onto the beam...
and IF you can place lally columns to get that extra load down to
the floor with as short a span as possible...
and IF you can provide enough cribbing to spread the load out on the
garage floor slab - remember, there's no footings and if the sub-soil
wasn't compacted right or is water saturated a heavily loaded column
foot could punch right through.
Concrete doesn't carry tension loads worth beans, and they don't
require much steel in a garage slab - might have one sheet of 1/8" x
6" x 6" welded wire if you're lucky, and that's nothing.
Before I tried a trick like that, I'd invite my friend the Architect
and his wife the Civil Engineer over to take a look (I'd probably end
up buying dinner...) and make sure I was on the right track and not
overlooking something obvious. And potentially deadly.
--<< Bruce >>--
I lifted a 2,200 lbs Bridgeport off my garage ceiling using a chain hoist.
The load was spread across about 5 6x2's using a "crossbeam" made of a
The lifting point was about 5 feet away from one of the walls.
This is not something that I would recommend, ie I will not come help
scraping your remains off the floor if you do the same thing and your
mill falls on you.
On Oct 15, 10:40 am, Ignoramus31535 <ignoramus31...@NOSPAM.
Would you do the lift the same way today? Was there any
indication, while lifting, that you were being unsafe (i.e. Any
sagging of the rafters or ANY nasty creaking or snapping
sounds). If none of the above, and you protected the rafters
against being damaged by your chain, then I'd say "You got
The chain did not touch the rafters. The way it worked is that above
the ceiling, a 6x6 was thrown perpendiculat to the rafters. The chain
hoist was below the ceiling and attached to rafters by means of 1/2"
I did not make any rash assumptions, I said a properly fastened hoist
with vertical columns would support a 1000 pound load.
Now you are making assumptions. I move heavy parts every day with
weights up to over two tons. I have lifted many heavy machines with
temporary setups and never dropped any of them.
Its only 1000 lb. not five ton.
the house and if a fault line had opened a fissure under the concrete and if it
has rained for the past 40 days and the whole house is about to slide down the
hill and if......
a heavily loaded column,,, 1000 lbs on two columns... that puts 500 lb.
on each post.
If the post is only four square inches in section, that would be about
125 lbs per sq inch hardly enough to punch through the concrete even
without using a bottom plate.
I though it was a garage... cars weigh a lot more than 1000 lbs.
Id make sure he or she has had a PE for at least 20 years, just to be
real safe, in fact come to think of it the machinery itself is not safe
to run so I would forget the whole idea.
Well ... I carried both an 800 pound 12x24" Clausing lathe with
bed turret, and later an 1100 pound Nichols horizontal mill up the
driveway to my garage^H^H^H^H^H^Hshop with a 3/4 ton pickup. The lathe
was moved directly from the side of the high flatbed to the pickup
(which was backed down the driveway to the side of the truck) with the
help of a ramp made of five 10' lengths of 2x4 bolted edge up to deck
planking with lag screws. The lathe was slid down this ramp into the
bed of the pickup, and then tied down to the corner anchors of the
pickup's bed. The ramp was on top of the edge of the tailgate to
provide something closer to a horizontal surface while the pickup was on
the rather steep driveway. (Oh yes -- the pickup was 4WD and thus
rather tall anyway.)
Once the pickup was outside the driveway and parked, the end of
the ramp was lifted by hand (two people) and the tailgate was lowered --
below the horizontal point by disconnecting the support arms. Then the
lathe and ramp were moved out over the tailgate until we reached a point
where the ramp could be tilted to provide an angled surface down to the
garage floor. Mountain climbing rope went from a carabiner at one
corner of the bed, around the front of the lathe, to another carabiner
with several turns, and then to my wife to "tail" (feed it gently -- the
several turns made it easy for her to control the weight via friction.
We slid it down the ramp, and onto the garage floor, eventually
fully inside. At this point, the ramp was jacked up clear of the
tailgate (using a floor jack) and the pickup was driven clear. A bit of
cribbing allowed the gentle lowering and removal of the ramp.
Later, a borrowed engine hoist lifted it clear of the pallet on
which it was mounted, and it ws transferred directly to the floor.
The milling machine was more top-heavy, and was also crushing
the pallet, so the moving company had put another under it. The driver
knew where a fork lift was available which could be used to transfer it to
the pickup (and on top of the same ramp). The pallet disintegrating
was a bit of a problem. We drove some 4x4s into the bottom pallet to
keep it from being crushed as well, then worked at removing the parts of
the top pallet. Once that was done, we were able to put a similar
arrangement of mountain climbing rope and carabiners to support the top
end of the milling machine as it slid down the ramp -- assisted by a
come-along anchored deeper into the garage. Final removal was again
with a lot of cribbing removed one 2x4 at a time from each side. The
engine hoist was not available at the time. I now have my own. All
told, the hardest work was levering up one side at a time to remove the
parts of the top pallet so we could have a flat surface under the 1100
I'm not sure about a 2000 pound mill, but a 3500 pound one (my
first heavy tool) involved renting a forklift to remove it from the
truck and get it up the driveway. Once it was indoors (placed by the
fork lift) the remainder of moving it involved Johnson bars and pipe
rollers. For this, I had three friends, one of whom was experienced in
moving heavy machines.
And -- as always -- if something is starting to topple, *don't*
try to stop it, and warn all of your helpers to just get clear too.
Trying to stop it can lead to too much damage to people, instead of to
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So you have what amounts to a 4WD F-250?? Sorry for any offense re
brand loyalty :) In my case, I am fairly neutral, though very impressed
with the F-150 the fell out of my search for "older but worth having".
The ramp went from the truck to your vertical tailgate, and then the
lathe slid into the bed. Did the ramp pivot as the weight crossed the
gate? Any concerns about that much weight resting largely on the gate,
or am I missing how it worked?
That approach would allow me to back up to my garage and place the load
on its level floor. I am skeptical of achieving that with my hoist
because of the garage door, but will measure to see if it has a chance;
it would be great if the distances add up. Failing that, the "hoist and
drive out from under it" idea would put it near the garage on the
driveway. The slope there isn't much, and some leverage and sliding
should get it the rest of the way. There is small step up from driveway
to garage floor; something I never noticed until I had to get a 700 lb
mill to climb it on an engine hoist.
You mentioned anchoring a come-along deeper in your garage. Any
recommendations for doing that w/o (much anyway) damage to the house?
The smallest mill I am considering right now weighs 1650 lb, which by my
understanding is a trailer job. For the initial arrival, I would
probably attack it by a receive and redeliver trick, if only to avoid
surprises that might waste a driver's time. For a local move, I am
curious about breaking it down and moving the pieces. I am in no hurry
to move, but it might be nice to be able to ease the financial pain and
perhaps take better care of the machines by relocating them myself.
Well ... I don't know the F-250, so I can't compare them. What
I have is a Mazda B2600i (big 4 cylinder engine). This was made just
before the "partnership" with Ford, and the engine has a real timing
chain (visible through the oil port) instead of a timing belt.
No -- the other end of the ramp was near the cab end of the bed.
I slowly backed my truck towards the delivery truck until the foot of
the ramp was against the back of the bed, so it would not slide while
the lathe was on it.
The ramp was above the gate when the lathe passed over it. Once
the lathe was as far towards the cab as the pallet would allow (heavy
headstock end towards the cab), I checked the force needed to lift the
far (delivery truck) end of the ramp, and felt comfortable letting that
rest on the upright tailgate. I put a jack under the ramp right by the
tailgate (inside the bed) and jacked it up just enough to clear the
delivery truck so I could drive forward a little and let it gently down
onto the tailgate. Once at the garage, I tried lifting the end again,
and felt comfortable letting the tailgate down and by hand lowering the
ramp until it was flat on the bed.
[ ... ]
I didn't have an engine hoist until the next day, when I could
drive the pickup to pick it up. :-)
Well ... you probably don't have what I used. I already had a
3500 pound CNC Bridgeport about as far into the garage as I could get
it, and a 2" web strap around the base of the Bridgeport offered a place
to hook the come-along. :-)
BTW I also used that same web strap (which was sewn into a circle
with a pair of hook plates on it -- Army surplus) when lifting
the lathe with the engine hoist. There, the ends of the loop
went under the (rather stiff) chip tray at both ends coming out
past the front and back edges, and I shifted the hook plates
closer to the headstock end for balance, and tied around the web
straps to keep it from sliding towards the lighter end.
The real trick was getting the engine hoist close enough without
the legs interfering with the pallet. I had to approach from the
headstock end, unbolt the lathe from the pallet, lift the lathe clear,
slide the pallet out, and then rotate the lathe so it was at right
angles to the beam and legs of the hoist and lower it onto cribbing to
let the legs be rolled out from under it. Then, it was the floor jack
and removing cribbing from one end, then the other back and forth until
it was on the floor.
As for the come-along and the milling machine below -- there was
a T-shaped pit (with curbs to keep from driving into the T-bar or the
pit) at the far end. I put a length of aluminum I-beam across the T-bar
and pulled it against that, which gave me a good pull into the garage
with no chance of damaging the poured concrete pit. Again, something
which is not present in most home garages. :-)
You'll probably need the engine host to break down the mill. Is
it a vertical or horizontal spindle mill? In any case, you will
probably want someone with some experience in taking things like that
apart -- especially if you remove the knee after removing the table and
saddle. The Bridgeports have tapered gibs, and if you lower the knee
with the wrong things loose, you will wedge the gibs firmly in place,
making it quite difficult to get apart without damage to the machine.
(No -- I haven't done this.) The only thing removed from my Bridgeport
when I brought it in was the 2JP three-phase motor. All the cabinets
full of heavy three-phase transformers and saturable reactors were still
installed. (CNC of that vintage adds a *lot* of weight to the machine. :-)
I didn't know about hiring riggers then. I think that the fork
lift rental (including delivery and eventual pick-up) was something like
$600.00. But this was over ten years ago, so my memory is probably
rather poor at this point.
Always remember to warn everybody when you start, and several
times more during the operation.
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My 1990 Sentra has a chain, which is new as of a couple of years ago,
along with the gears, guides, chain and water pump - that scream you
heard around that time was me seeing the estimate ;)
First the chicken and egg, and now this :)
That can be a problem.
> I had to approach from the
Was the lathe too big to lower between the legs when aligned with the
boom? I've wondered about that, but cribbing would fix it.
I suspect I will buy vertical.
> In any case, you will
Thanks for the cautions. It is something that I would want to
understand how to do, but I do not want to hinge the arrival on it. The
1650 lb 8x36 mill is sounding a little better than it originally did,
but there is no rush at the moment.
I think I found a good mover. He estimates $500 to receive and
re-deliver a mill, and $100 to receive and load a lathe. To move
equipment locally, they start talking about minimum times; it's not
outrageous, but I am a little perplexed at why they do not do that type
of thing on the delivery side. The delivery price does not include
removing the machine from the palette, which means they can get in and
out quickly - is that the difference?
Are you saying your rigger charges way more to remove the machine from
the pallet? If so, he may be using his own flatbed tow truck or drop
deck trailer (and hand pallet jack) to deliver if you don't want the
machine separated from the pallet. Lifting the machine off the pallet
would require bringing a forklift.
Regardless, do consider paying extra to get them to remove the
pallet. Enco's pallets are big and bulky and, in my opinion, it would
be very difficult to separate the machine from the pallet without a
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