Actually the Republicans lost because they FAILED to follow their ideas. They ran and got elected on one set (less government, less spending) but when they got in power they toss them aside and started acting like Democrats. That is spending tax money like drunken sailors to buy votes. Look as how much the government has grown and how much more we are spending now vs. to the same numbers before Bush got elected.
And it will happen as the workers there stop wanting to do what I call 'monkey work', i.e. work a well trained monkey could do. How much skill does is needed to take a screw from a bin, put it in a hole and run it down with a power driver? As people get 'richer' they get better educated and don't want to do that kind of work. At that point it becomes harder to get workers to do the work therefore people have to be paid more to do it. At some point it becomes cheaper to move the work than pay what is needed to get it done locally.
Add taxes into the mix and you have an even bigger reason to move. In the US businesses are fleeing high tax, unionized states to come to the low tax, non-union South. Please keeping raising taxes and kowtowing to unions CA and New England, we love your jobs here in the South.
JFK
Exactly.
-- Mark
Keep in mind that your time in history is *post-union*. The non-union shop you'll take any day is one that developed in a unionized industrial environment--or a post-unionized industrial environment, if it's a newer company.
In other words, those non-union shops are human places to work today because the standards have been pushed so high by unions. If you want a clearer picture of what a non-union shop looks like in its natural state, take a look at labor history and industrial history from, say, the last decade of the 19th century through the first two decades of the 20th.
It was pretty ugly. Most of us would blow a gasket if we had to confront the labor/management relationships that naturally evolve in a non-union, laissez-faire economy with no external pressures to establish a decent place for workers.
As for what use unions fulfill today, they're counterproductive in a globalized economy. But then, if the objective is progress for the middle class in general, the globalizing economy may well be counterproductive, itself.
-- Ed Huntress
Data? The question and the answer are explicit in the posting. Somebody (Harold?) says the "value" is somewhere between what China is paying and what US workers are demanding. Since Chinese workers are making somewhere around $0.80/hr. on the average, that makes the "value" income something close to half of what US workers are making now.
If you question the $0.80, I spent six months researching the subject and wrote three 5,000-word articles about it in _Machining_ magazine. You can probably find them, and I could send you the 50 MB or so of research material I acquired while doing that job. But I won't. It's mine, all mine. d8-)
-- Ed Huntress
Actually, they acted like neocons. Democrats haven't acted like that for around 20 years.
Exactly.
-- Ed Huntress
They haven't acted like Republicans since Ronald Reagan. He deficit-spent like an Ivy League co-ed. Bush the 1st did the same.
Here's the national debt as a percentage of GDP, which is the meaningful number if the issue is fiscal prudence:
-- Ed Huntress
And we love your grits and red-eye gravy! We use it to patch holes caused by termite damage. It's a fair trade.
The US has one of the lowest overall tax rates in the industrialized world. Maybe the problem is something else?
-- Ed Huntress
Kinda my point. The situation as I see it is this:
We have a two party system in this country (U.S.) for the forseeable future, whether we like it or not.
Neither the Republicans or Democrats seem motivated to either prevent the outflow of companies and jobs, or the influx of immigrants and cheap merchandise from China (as an example).
I see the unions as being the only force strong enough, or motivated enough to help to, at least, slow the present process.
I think something has to be done and the sooner the better but for the life of me I can't think of any other way to help control the situation.
dennis in nca
Ed Huntress wrote in article ...
On a per-capita basis, Maine is the highest-taxed state in the country.
Massachusetts isn't far behind - and with a new Democrat-elect heading towards the corner office with a "mandate" to "fix" things, it may even surpass Maine.
In Maine, it has been shown that, on average, 40 percent of one's income goes to taxes.....income, excise, sales, property, meals, liquor, fuel, pass-along business taxes, etc. - not to mention various "fees" which are nothing more than taxes in disguise.
They announce that fees from special license plates will go directly to the Inland Fisheries program.
What they DON'T say is that the general funds portion of the IF&W program budget is reduced by the same amount of money that the license plate sales bring in - leaving that departmemnt with the same budget, but giving the politicians more money to spend elsewhere - generating even more programs requiring MORE taxes in support, and effectively shifting the money from its allegedly intended purposes.
Pretty much the same story with Lottery income earmarked for educational purposes. The MORE Lottery money, the less from the general fund spent on education.
Education stays funded at the same level - regardless of Lottery contributions - while the politicos spend on pet projects and programs.
Fees, in TX we get charged a "fee' for the rain even if it don't rain. Called "rainwater runoff fee". Guess that's a "user" fee.
We didn't raise taxes these are "user fees".
Isn't there one for food service in a restaraunt or bar? I remember seeing it on the bill at a resturaount in Dallas. We waited for our table at the bar and the first thing the guy rang up on the tab was some sort of fee. Cracked me up.
I think so, Dallas is fee heavy, but they call it a "low tax state". Dallas is building fancy ass bridges that we don't need, but they say they will look cool. When the bids came in 100% over what they got (non tax paying voters) to approve the bonds for, they said ok we will use steel from China & use smaller steel to save money & use PVC for the big drain lines... Great my shop is 6 blocks from the first one.
for the drain lines
I require no worship, though the occasional offering of nybile young women (preferable trained to supress their gag reflex) would be appropriate. Oh..Cash is always a welcome offering.
Gunner
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Nope..no free meds here. One has to be an active participant of the system to be so entitled.
Gunner
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Indeed. Which is why I read their claims of "The People have given them a clear Mandate" with serious amusement.
The margins by which the Dems won, particularly in the battle ground states, were on the orders of 2000-6000 votes. If so many Republicans hadnt simply stayed home...the Dems would be screaming about voter fraud and hand wringing like obsessive compulsives.
Gunner
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
I think so, Dallas is fee heavy, but they call it a "low tax state". Dallas is building fancy ass bridges that we don't need, but they say they will look cool. When the bids came in 100% over what they got (non tax paying voters) to approve the bonds for, they said ok we will use steel from China & use smaller steel to save money & use PVC for the big drain lines... Great my shop is 6 blocks from the first one.
for the drain lines
If I run across any of his old vinyl I'll be sure to send it along.
dennis in nca
snip-----
Nothing can be done, because there is no solution. It's time for us to review our position (realistically). I see what's happening as a natural event. We Americans, with all our conceit, have placed ourselves above the balance of humanity in thinking that we deserve the "good life" and should be paid money far beyond our worth. The balance of the world looks at us and sees a perfect opportunity to provide the wanted goods and services at what is, to them, one hell of a good price. They appear to have a more realistic look at their worth.
Why?
Because their expectations are closer to reality-------and ours are totally unreasonable.
Value! Before the playing field is level, everyone will come to terms with the idea that we must earn what we are paid------the day of the free lunch is over.
If that doesn't happen, why should you, or anyone, be surprised that we are not competitive and will lose our market share? We should expect our industries to continue leaving in droves, with the eventual collapse of non-exportable industries, due in part to no one having enough free money to pay for their services because they have no job.
Unions are not part of the solution------they are the problem.
Harold
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