Of interest

Not quite. The Dems have been tax and spend for thelast 20 years. Name one time when they have cut any spending, even "Washington cuts".

FYI, a "Washington cut" is when you were going to spend $100,000 more this year than last year but you ONLY spend $75,000 there fore you have a "cut" of $25,000. In real life it was an INCREASE of $75,000 over last years budget.

That's because, being a man of his word, he expected the Dems to do what they had agreed to do. The deal was they'd cut cut a dollar for each dollar his plan would save. IOW, a zero sum plan.

If you check history you will find that cutting taxes brings in more money in the long run. Less money going to the gov means more for us to spend, the more money spending means the enco grows. In turn more money for the gov. Even the Dem 'god' JFK knew that and cut the top income tax rate.

One of the problems with the current tax system is it is used more as a governmental control device than an income resource (if they want more money they just borrow it). IOW, if you want some something to grow you give it tax cuts. If you want to stop or slow down something you raise taxes on it.

What needs to be done is for the US to decide what kind of country it wants to be and what kinds of jobs it wants to its people to have. If it wants to move to being a 'second world' country with a lot of low tech 'monkey jobs' (such as tightening lug nuts on a auto assembly line) then all we need to do is keep dumbing down our education system. If we want to move forward and stay a 'first world' country then we need to educate our people and have them doing the high skill, high paying jobs which can only be done in a 'first world' country.

An example: A friend of our kids graduated high school last May. He got a job a Lowe's making $7/hr while he looked for a "real job". Monday he is starting a job as a audio-visual tech at a high tech company around $25/hr (in a non-union shop). He got the job because he educated himself and made himself worth the money. Now if he hadn't made this effort he'd still be working for $7/hr.

Take a look again at the graph to which I posted the URL. If you want an honest understanding of what's going on, and are ready to stop living on ideological baloney, first get your numbers right.

-- Ed Huntress

HTH

Really? Do you have the quotes on that? Because Reagan's former budget director, David Stockman, said that the problem was *Republicans* in Congress, not the Democrats. Read his book, _The Triumph of Politics: Why the Reagan Revolution Failed_ to see what actually happened regarding proposed tax cuts.

Since you're making the assertion, I'm sure you can produce some records of tax cuts relative to tax revenue to prove that claim? Another Reagan economist, Paul Krugman, says that the business of cutting taxes on businesses, supply-side economics, was a fraud and "hokum for the yokels." Apparently some are still buying the hokum.

And when the money goes to the government, where does it go? Do they stuff it into the mattress in the Lincoln Bedroom? Or do they use it to buy goods and services from the rest of us? Or do they give it (something like 7% of the federal budget) to welfare recipients? And what do *they* do with it, invest in Chinese stocks and bonds?

You'd do well to think your line of reasoning through.

But we still need to see some figures. So far, we have your nonspecific and undocumented assertion--which sounds remarkably like more hokum.

Interesting theory. Can you back it up? How would you know if growth is the result of tax cuts or deficit spending? And, if it's the latter, when does the mortgage payment come due?

-- Ed Huntress

Darned right. d9-)

How ya' been, Guido?

== Ed Huntress

Now that's a novel idea! Actually preparing one's self for making a living instead of demanding higher pay for brain dead labor.

My hat's off to that young man.

Harold

I have checked on it. Remember the great "School Lunch Cuts" the Dems were screaming about a few years ago? Check those numbers. You'll see what I mean about "Washington cuts". It was not a cut in spending but a cut in the increase in spending.

Now I ask you, can you point out any example where the Dems have actually cut the spending of a program in the last 20 years?

Defense, the military and Humit (human based intellence services)

Typical for Dems..gut the military and everything needed to protect our nation.

Gunner

Political Correctness

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Strange, seeing as how the Dems had control of Congress.

Best example is the increase after the JFK cuts.

I ask you this, how many 'poor' people have provided you a job? You make it so people can keep more money and most of them don't stuff it under the mattress they spend it to buy stuff that other people make. Most of the people in the US, IMO, spend WAY too much and don't put ANY away, under the mattress or anywhere else.

Anyway businesses don't pay taxes. The people who buy their products do.

Some is sent back to us poor working stiffs but a large chunk of it seems to go to foreign governments and a lot of it seems to be lost. Seems that every time you hear of a GAO report there are large sums of money which can not be accounted for.

The biggest problem I have is how much of it is being taken from me and given to other people to buy votes. Also given in such a way to make virtual slaves of them. IOW, the system is set up in such a way to make it next to impossible to escape it.

I had a sight showing a chart of how much of each dollar goes where. Was interesting to say the least.

Sure I do.

BTY, do you think someone is going to put out 100% effort 100% of the time if he knows he is only going to get 70% of the rewards of his work? Also who do you think is going to do a better, more efficient job, someone using their own money or someone spending someone else's money?

Maybe in the next week of so I will have time to do a little googling on such things. Right now I have way too much work to do.

Sure. Easy example is the yacht industry several years ago. Some wise guy thought that there was a lot of money to be made by putting a large tax on these luxury items. It didn't take long before the US yachting industry was in the tank. I think you can find something similar in the US oil drilling business when a 'windfall' tax was put on it.

Personally I look at the current economic situation as abnormal due to the war. I don't have the numbers, sorry, but I'm sure the defense budget has grown to a much greater percentage than in the past 30 years. Maybe even longer because we are using fewer troops and more VERY expensive machines and weapons.

Its coming due in the next few years when the baby boomers discover that all that social security money they think is sitting in an account somewhere isn't there. At that point the ratio of workers paying in to the government vs. the number of non-workers taking money from the government will drop to the point workers won't stand for it. Who would work for 40+ hrs a week to take home 20 hours worth of money? Especially if they can sit at home and get near the same amount for watching TV.

I already know of a lot of barter work going on. Bush hogging traded for drywall work. Roughing in plumbing for half a hog. Putting on a new roof for some dozer work. If taxes get much worse, which they must after the baby boomers stop paying taxes, a lot more of this 'underground' stuff will be going on.

Not too bad. I'm back in for the winter now so might make a few more usenet posts. How about you?

The Dems haven't even been in *power* for the last 12 years. Any spending was done by a Republican majority.

And, man, how they have spent! Take a look at the real numbers:

Go for Historical Tables, Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2007, and take a close look at Table 1.3, which is in constant dollars and GDP.

Man alive, those Republicans have turned into spending ninnies! When I joined the party we were the party of fiscal responsibility. What the hell have you guys done to it?

Tell you what, no spam. You've made it pretty clear that your talk is empty, without any facts behind it, 100% doctrinaire bushwah. Why don't you either, a), look up the fact and amaze yourself, or b) warn us before you post that it's all unsubstantiated speculation, torn from the playbook of the neocon-controlled GOP playbook?

-- Ed Huntress

Very well, thanks. I'm writing about drugs these days. Very interesting stuff, with a lot of scientifically exciting things developing that really have my interest perked up.

I'm taking my son back to college in an hour. He's a freshman at a very selective and conservative southern university -- one that he picked out and targeted. He has to wear a shirt and tie to football games, and the animal-rights discussion in his ethics class devolved into a bragging contest among the students about how much red meat they eat.

He wanted a "different" cultural perspective. He got it. And he loves the challenge. He's been reading Dawkin's new book, _The God Delusion_, over the holiday week (Thanksgiving), and he's ready to do battle when he gets back.

So, with my new job, and my wife promoted in her teaching position, and my son doing well in college, all is pretty nifty here. I, too, have a little more time for Usenet than I did all summer and fall. I had about five years worth bioscience reading to catch up on, so I could write for medical professionals. It took all of my time.

-- Ed Huntress

Nope, I don't remember the school lunch cuts. I do remember that my old classmate and conservative extraordinaire, David Stockman, declared that ketchup was an official Republican vegetable for purposes of counting veges in school lunches.

Who said they cut spending programs? It's the Republicans who are supposed to *cut* spending programs. But if you looked at the offical White House site on budgets to which I posted the URL, you'll see that they're all talk and no action, right?

-- Ed Huntress

Damned right. That's why we keep being invaded during Democrat administrations. I think there's an Arab just a couple of streets over from me, in fact.

'Country's goin' to hell in a handbasket.

-- Ed Huntress

Given the recent uses to which our vaunted civilian leaders have put the military, we'd be well advised to gut it. That way the pols wouldn't have the potential to screw up that they are now excercising to the detriment of all concerned.

Stranger than fiction. Read the book, you'll be amazed.

Stockman was a classmate of mine and he was a bona-fide Reagan Revolutionary. But, despite the fact that he is a brilliant economist and has since been the director of several financial firms, he knew as well as anyone that the whole thing was a fraud, perpetuated for the sake of philosophical righteousness rather than economics. As he said in a 1981 interview, regarding the budget process, "None of us really understands what's going on with all these numbers."

How's THAT for strange?

As for the rest of your message, I have to leave now, but I'll take it up when I return late tomorrow.

-- Ed Huntress

which is my point and why they are no longer in power.

I'm sort of busy right now. I've got a pig pen to build (long story), a horse shed to repair, a mobile home to finish winterizing, two children to take where they need to be. I take 15 mins or so here and there when I'm eating to read a few newsgroups. As I said before when I get time I'll check a few numbers.

You are so good with numbers and seem to have more time to surf than I do can you tell me just how much (in dollars not percentages) the Reps were going to cut from the school lunch program a few years ago. I think when you check the numbers YOU will be surprised.

Here's a surprise for ya. I was born and raised in a Yellow Dog Democrat Union till I die home. AAMOF, my dad literally got out of his death bed and was wheeled into a voting booth so he could vote straight Democratic ticket. He went into a coma and died a few weeks later.