Of interest

And this is where???

This came off Craigslist.

Email the contact addy and find out.

Gunner

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Be a strike breaker, help the companies cut their pay, the CEO needs his big pay!

Whatever.

Take it up with the person who wrote the ad.

Gunner

Im btw..the LAST person anyone wants to bleed on looking for sympathy for unions.

Gunner

>

and you were even brilliant enough to copy the: "    * no -- Reposting this message elsewhere is NOT OK."

Nick

Oddly enough..they never seem to talk about the greed of the unions and their management.

Gunner

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Definately the union's fault that non-union shops pay higher wages.

Now go figure...

Oops, a re-wording is in order here...

Definately the union's fault that the non-union shops are able to pay out higher wages.

Now about the greed of Unions and Union Management again?

Say..have they found Jimmy Hoffa yet?

Gunner

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

don't mean to horn in where I'm not wanted, but I just thought I'd mention that I find this funny when, looking at the tools y'all use, the question isn't so much which human gets the job as it is how long humans will have the job at all. Just my two bits. GCC

Who told you that you weren't wanted?

With the advent of CNC, the man on the machine is threatened with extinction, and not just in the machine shop. People with a poor understanding of cutting theory and operations can go by the book and produce parts that typically rival parts produced by well seasoned craftspeople of all kinds. Skilled tradespeople are not really needed much these days.

I agree------how long will the majority of workers have jobs? Those that can't be replaced by a computer (delivery person-----such as UPS drivers, for example) are relatively secure, but as they demand and get paid more and more money, those that are struggling will cease to use the services provided, and a general decline of industry will begin. No products sold, no need for deliveries. In the end, we'll be reduced to the level of a

3rd world country, due in part to the reluctance of working people and management to refuse to work for wages in keeping with their values. I predict a bleak future for young people.

Who said there aren't advantages to being old? It's not likely to affect me.

Harold

Except the affect you may feel when you see the results of our creation on your children and grandchildren. OUR creation ????????

In 1950 the average house size was around 1000 sq.ft., in 1970 that changed to about 1400 sq.ft. and in 2004 the number moved up to 2330 sq.ft. In order to sustain this (and all of our other self-inflated expenses) the average worker in the United States "requires" an equally bloated pay envelope each payday soooo..... enter the illegal alien. I doubt this trend will change any time soon and, I believe, no government or union has the power to affect the progression.

Companies will continue to hire illegal aliens (those who can't afford to send jobs overseas), and no matter what their monetary or ideological reasons and agendas, no U.S. government is likely to want to significantly change this.

We created this world, Harold. Now our children and grandchildren have to live in it. Will joining a union help some of them cling to the financial ladder we forced them to climb? Will most of them be able to have one parent at home with the children while the other is the provider (as in days of old)? I doubt it. But can you blame them for trying?

dennis in nca

Having read what I wrote yesterday, I realize that I included a few words that made my comment contradictory to my intention. I meant to say:

In the end, we'll be reduced to the level of a 3rd world country, due in part to the reluctance of working people and management to work for wages in keeping with their values, not due in part to the reluctance of working people and management *to refuse* to work for wages in keeping with their values.

There's no reluctance for people to refuse to work for wages in keeping with their value-----most already do that now, which is part of the problem.

Harold

And what's their "value," Harold, when the competition in China is paying $0.80/hr.? Does the "value" vary, depending on who our global competition is this year?

-- Ed Huntress

I gotta point out again- people keep going back to the whole our-jobs-are-going-overseas or the-mexicans-are-stealing-our-jobs arguments but it seems a bit funny to me. You guys use, on a daily basis, technology that vastly increases the power of one man over his environment- which, assuming that the end goal would have been desired with or without that technology, reduces the need for a workforce. A big, heavy lathe can probably (and precisely) remove how many pounds of metal from a piece of hardened steel in an hour? How many human workers do you think that would take, if it were even possible, by hand? No, the fact is that we enjoy the profits of all this technology and the added control and power it brings to one man, and so we ignore the fact that with every powerful new tool, the fruit of human industry is being replaced by the work of a machine, and I think its just a matter of convenience to lay it at the door of those damn furriners. I also wonder, as we so pointedly discuss the state of labor in the U.S., how long those folks in China, India, and Taiwan will have their jobs, before the influx of cash they create can be used by heavy industry to replace them, sending an ever-declining number of jobs to an ever-poorer part of the world. But we don't condemn the machines that make it possible, that we use, or the people who couldn't adapt to the changing tide- no, we blame the people in the worst position to ever try to change the situation: the 8-cent-an-hour-earning mother of three in mainland China, whose big ambition in life is to eat a handful of rice before collapsing after her 16 hour shift. Seems a little silly, doesn't it? Seems a little self-serving, doesn't it? I know it does to me. // just my two bits.

No..not true. The Tools human industry make the worker more efficient, more productive. It doesn't replace the human, but compliments him and allows him to do bigger and better things than ever before.

The windlass..it replaced a host of slaves pulling a block of limestone up a ramp, or a bucket of water up a well. The task was still done, but it allowed fewer people to accomplish the same task.

There is some :is the glass half empty, or half full" in how you look at things

Gunner

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."

- Proverbs 22:3

I'd be inclined to say that the "value" is somewhere between what China is paying and what US workers are demanding. For sure, less than they're getting paid. And before anyone jumps to conclusions, that includes management.

You know as well as I do that I am not a student of the economy, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that no one can compete when they're being paid high wages as compared to the world average. It works for a while, but eventually falls on it's back side. There's enough hungry people in the world that are willing to work for a reasonable wage, and they're killing jobs that are over priced. Aren't we seeing evidence of that on a daily basis?

Problem with the "unearned" pay is that product so produced must be sold for more, reducing the buying power of the inflated wages, to say nothing of not being able to compete with import items of similar quality. It's a vicious cycle----one that must be broken if we intend to compete on a global basis.

About two years ago the union was voted out of the grocery portion of a small supermarket (Shop 'N Cart) in the "big city" of Chehalis, where we shop. The meat cutters remained unionized. Those fools picketed for a couple years----hoping that we'd honor their picket line------which, of course, I gladly crossed, as did the vast majority of the folks in Chehalis. What these people were asking me to do is pay more for my groceries, reducing my quality of life, so theirs could be improved. Need I say more?

Harold