OT Environmentalists may be in deep Kimchee

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You're excusing it.

Do you think his computer typed the word "armed" without him?

You're excusing dishonesty.

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No, it doesn't. Lewis' definition is a moronic appeal to emotion fallacy.

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Huff and puff all you wish. A 'victim of a violent crime' and "a loved one assaulted by an unethical criminal, intent on taking stuff and doing bodily harm" are not equivalent.

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I'm shredding Gunner. He's spouting the standard propaganda from gunner websites, I'm noting relevant and recent research with which he is unfamiliar.

If you think he's more aware of the research and data, you really have poor evaluation skills.

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They aren't "100's of thousands" that fit his definition.

Gunner wrote

ROTFL! You've got to be one of the biggest gunner idiots around.

Produce a statement from Kleck's DGU research where he concludes that more guns produce less crime.

Then explain how Kleck could 'back up' Lott when Kleck conducted his DGU research before Lott conducted his MGLC research.

I know you won't but it will be entertaining to watch you sputter.

Gunner wrote

It's still flying well over your head.

And somehow "BottleBob" thinks you are more well-informed.

First you mindlessly parrot the claim that Kellerman's study wasn't peer-reviewed and then when that lie is noted, you try a different tactic.

If the result of the peer-review was that his research was incorrect, then it wouldn't have been published. That's the purpose of peer-review. Since it was published in a journal after going through the peer-review process, it demonstrates that the peer-review did 'find it' correct.

It will be entertaining to watch how you decide to spin that.

My credentials are irrelevant to the fact that Rick Lowe is not qualified nor trained to evaluate research.

Nonetheless, I am qualified, trained, and publish peer-reviewed research.

It will be entertaining to watch you spin that one.

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You're batting .000

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It's your website, idiot.

That's another swing and a miss. You're still batting .000

"Decently trained"? Is this the same Gunner who was extoling the virtues of gun laws that don't require a permit, and who discounted Michigan's stats because the state requires a ten-minute gun-handling quiz in order to purchase a handgun?

Nah. 'Must have been another Gunner....

Ed Huntress

Carl:

I didn't say that, now did I. When YOU claimed to be more "well-informed" than anyone else posting to this thread, I just said that that's your "opinion", which may, or may not, be true. I made no assertions that Gunner was, or was not, more "well-informed"

I take it you missed the post about mandatory training in school? Want me to repost it? Or are you simply ignoring it as it doesnt fit your mindset?

RHINO.

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

I didn't see it. I don't read the really dreary-sounding threads.

So, this one is interesting. Isn't that a little bit fascist? Aren't you supposed to be able to just go in and buy a gun anywhere, anytime, without any kind of test or permit?

Are you suggesting that gun training should be the fourth "R"? Reading, 'Riting, 'Rithmetic, and Revolution?

Just what are you suggesting here, Gunner? How does it comport with your right to buy and own a gun?

Ed Huntress

I suggested that it be manditory for firearms safety and use training be taught in schools from K-12.

That the certificate be good for any type of weapon, concealed at any time once the certificate has been granted, and good for carry in public. Unified requirements across all state lines, good for all states and territories, and only granted in full at the age of Majority. "learners permits" for hunting etc to be issued on completion of various levels of classes.

No registration of weapons, or owners, only whether or not the individual had completed the certification course for public carry. Period. Penalties for an uncertified individual carrying in public to be harsh and swift, unless in an emergency or legal duty.

This would not effect your right to purchase, own or carry on your own property, but only in public. And would not discriminate between a Glock, a mini Uzi, a M16, and a sawed off shotgun in a shoulder holster.

Of course, all prohibited persons would have that certificate rescinded. Private party sales, mail order sales, gun store sales all ok, with proof of cert. Counterfeit certs to be punished swiftly and harshly.

I recommended that shooting competition of all types be offered in schools much as it was in your and my day.

Quite a list of things, all basic common sense.

Removes the Forbidden Fruit problem, removes the ignorance problem, etc. Very much like a drivers license. Drive anything, any time, anywhere as long as the cert is good. We can discuss refreshers every

Break the law, removal of cert, up to lifetime depending on act in addition to all applicable criminal penalties. All btw..only for public property. No restrictions on type, usage or carry on your own private property. Basic right.

This should make the groups concerned about public safety happy. The gun grabbers simply could go piss up a rope. Its Constitutionally sound as it does not infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms except to prohibited persons, and allows unified freedom in all states without restriction. Im pragmatic enough to suggest the cert. Shrug. Others will disagree with me of course, in both directions.

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

Haha! Veddy interesting. I take it you've never been to a school board meeting...or at least you've never made this proposal at one, because you're still alive.

Well, here we are back at the corral, having gone around the horn with statistics and so on, now arriving back at where the real gunfight is: the great cultural divide. If you plan to promote this idea of yours, let us know so we can watch the fireworks.

Ed Huntress

Make sure you remember that next time you try to stuff words into my mouth.

It's a very well-informed, and accurate, opinion.

Yes, you are.

Then he did it deliberately. He had the correct label in the table he used. He chose to relabel it.

Yes.

That wasn't his contention. His 'contention' was a fallacious appeal to emotion.

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No.

I doubt it.

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There's no 'perhaps' about it.

That's the goalpost move. He knew he was screwed by his definition so he had to drag out something else.

God knows why you're supporting and excusing his dishonesty.

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I can tell.

You don't know much about crime statistics, do you?

Most victims of violent crime are violent criminals.

Would you tend to label a violent criminal a "loved one"?

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He is rather delusional.

He, and you, would be wrong.

If you think that's correct, identify a single item that I've 'spouted' from such a web site.

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See Weibe, 2003. There's no perhaps about it.

Like I said, you really have poor evaluation skills.

It's a standard usenet netiquette for noting that material was snipped out of the post.

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Carl: When did I do that?

Don't you think Gunner would no doubt say the same about his own opinions?

Just an offhand observation, but for someone who claims to be "qualified, trained, and publishes peer-reviewed research" you tend to be a little touchy and emotional and seem to have an anti-gun bias. Are those desirable traits in an impartial researcher?

BTW, just curious, are you a regular on any of the three groups this thread is crossposted to, or did you do a global search for gun arguments?

I was ON a school board. I quit in disgust. To many really stupid people (libs for the most part) wanting every thing but the kitchen sink, ignoring the kids education and wanting it all for free. That was my first wake up call to the dangers of Liberals in the educational system.

Of course it will never fly, unless common sense becomes valuable again. Unfortunately Me 'ism has been the watchword of the past 40 or so years. Im sure JFK is spinning in his grave.

"Ask not, what your country can do for you, but what YOU can do for your country"

Liberal translation: " Ask for every thing you can from your country, and Do everything you can do TO your country"

Spit

Gunner

"Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face."

-- Krusty the Clown, "The Simpsons"

First, you try to call me a liar and claim I made up facts that dispruted your ifiotic argument and when those facts were proven true, you switch to a different tactic and argue semantics.

Give it up, moron. You're an idiot and a liar and we all know it.

ral

And yet you argue violent crime stats that are cited on dozens of differnt definitive sites?

Ok, idiot.

ral

Interesting observation.

"Ed Huntress" wrote ....

Speaking of fireworks...

You should check out Lambert's Blog (if you haven't already) on his latest news on Lott's sockpuppet habits.

I'll look.

Ed Huntress

Then you're part of the problem! You should have simply recruited more folks like you, and given the board a tussle. If you were half as persistent there are you are here, there would be nothing left but rubble when you were done with them.

:)

Jim

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