OT_Heavily armed NRA Sheep <G>

Hmm. "Re-victimize." I'm not sure I understand what that means.

This having been said, I think I'd like law passed that nobody could sue me, either.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

I see your reading comprehension issues have not improved any....sigh. You really really need to work on it.

"Contrary to the claim of the anti-gun activists, the proposal specifically authorizes suits for negligence and other factors they said would be exempted, including lawsuits brought against firearms or ammunition manufacturers, distributors or dealers for:

illegally selling or otherwise providing guns or ammunition to a person with the knowledge that they will be used in a violent or drug trafficking crime;

negligence or negligently providing firearms or ammunition when the seller knew or should have known that doing so was not safe;

harm directly caused by intentional violations of state or federal laws concerning the sale or marketing of firearms and ammunition;

breach of contract or warranty in connection with the purchase of the product; or

physical injuries or property damage resulting directly from a defect in design or manufacture of the firearm or ammunition, when used as intended.

In each of the types of lawsuits allowed by the bill, the suit may proceed only if it is brought by a person directly harmed or injured by the allegedly illegal or negligent action, or by that person's estate, if deceased.

Anti-gun mayors and county administrators would no longer be allowed to sue gun makers in an attempt to recover the costs of medical treatment for firearms injuries caused by criminals. They could, however, still sue the criminal who was actually responsible for the injuries."

Yes Jim..the more I think about it..you NEED to read Unintended Consequences. If need be..Ill get you a copy.

Gunner

Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

30 bucks hard cover from B&N last night, plus they would have had to order it. Ms. Mulligan is doing the online search thing from the w'chester library system today for me.

Thanks anyway though.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Gunner,

Do you have a link to any site that shows who the 55 Senators are that are voting for this legislation? If you do and could post it I would appreciate it. I would do it myself but for the next two days I will be away from civilization.

Dennis

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:38:42 GMT, Gunner brought forth from the murky depths:

I missed the OP. Was one of these books the one you refer to?

"A rage to punish : the unintended consequences of mandatory sentencing" Author: Forer, Lois G., 1914- Publisher, Date: New York : Norton, c1994. ISBN: 0393036413 - Description: 204 p. ; 24 cm.

"Why things bite back: technology and the revenge of unintended consequences" Author: Tenner, Edward. Publisher, Date: New York : Knopf, 1996. ISBN: 0679425632 - Description: xiii, 346 p. ; 24 cm.

You are in luck, Jim. There is one up on eBay right now.

Mike Eberle> >

Unintended Consequences John Ross, Foreword by Timothy Mullin ISBN: 1888118040 Format: Hardcover, 863pp Pub. Date: December 1996 Publisher: Accurate Press

catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

Quick definitions (liberal)

# noun: a person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and the protection of civil liberties

I don't understand which of these concepts you are so opposed to. In most of your posts you appear to be rational.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:19:43 GMT, Gunner brought forth from the murky depths:

You're quick! I cancelled that message less than five minutes after I posted it after seeing subsequent posts about it.

-- Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. ---- --Unknown

Thats the problem with quick definitions, rather than looking at what actually IS is. You gave the definition of Classical Liberal btw. By actual practice..todays US Liberal should be called a Neo-Lib, and I have done such. In fact, todays US Liberal has much in common with Fascism tempered with Socialism.

The definition of liberal has changed much over the years. In the early

19th Century the label was applied to those who believed in limited government, free trade, personal ownership of guns, and opposed the antithesis of free trade, war and interventionism. Starting in the early 20th Century thru the mid 1960?s liberal described a supporter of large intrusive government, controlled trade, and a call for equalitarianism through socialism, worship of state, war and interventionism. Since the 1960?s liberal has been used to describe those who support a large intrusive government, social programs, equalitarianism, and are opposed to personal ownership of guns, and free-trade.

Care to disagree? We can discuss other "definitions" that have little bearing on actual practice as well.....

Diversity: "Diversity" is defined as a group that includes a black Marxist, a lesbian Marxist, a gay Marxist, a Latino Marxist, a transgender Marxist, a feminist Marxist, a Native American Marxist, and so forth. The one kind of diversity not permitted is diversity of political view or values."

You might be a liberal....

You have ever used the phrase "protecting prisoner's rights". You call the capital punishment "murder" but call murder "pro-choice".

You've ever said "But look at all the good Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy has done for the women of this country!"

You argue that the Second Amendment only refers to Federally organized militias.

You view Jane Fonda as a courageous heroine with strong convictions.

You believe it because "Dan Rather wouldn't lie about something this important".

You ever based an argument on the phrase, "But they can afford a tax hike because..."

You've ever argued that with just 1 more year of welfare that person will turn it around and get off drugs.

You keep count of how many people you know in each racial or ethnic category.

You believe that a few hundred loggers can find another career, but the defenseless spotted owl must live in its preferred tree.

You feel that Green Peace is misunderstood.

You've tried to argue in favor of anything based on "Well, they're gonna do it anyway so....".

You've ever stated "How does what he does in his personal life have any bearing on doing his job?"

You don't understand all the commotion about Whitewater, Vince Foster, selling US foreign policy for campaign contributions, it's just politics, right?

Upon hearing that President Clinton committed a rape and murder as part of Whitewater, you replied, "So what?"

You are not shocked when someone says "F---" but are profoundly shocked when someone says"N-----".

You are against sexual harrasment except when committed by Senator Kennedy.

You think heterosexual love is a male chauvinist plot to oppress women.

You own an espresso maker, a cusinart, a vibrator, and a heated water bed and yet oppose off shore oil drilling and the construction of nuclear power plants.

You think that the Unabomber might have a good point.

You think George W. Bush is a bigger threat to world peace than Saddam Hussein...

You think every problem is the direct result of the government not spending enough to solve it...

You think making $100,000 /yr makes you "rich"...

You think Fox News is a biased network, and Al Jazeerah isn't...

You think suicide bombers and other terrorists are "militants"...

The answer to every problem in the Middle East is the end of Israel...

You think Castro is anything other than a petty dictator...

You think a tax cut is bad for, but a tax hike helps the poor...

You think the Dixie Chicks and Tim Robbins should say what they want, but O'reilly, Hannity, and Limbaugh should shut up...

You trust CNN for anything beyond the current temperature...

You think SUVs are supportive of terrorists, but houses with 19 car garages are AOK...

You think wanting the US to win a war is jingoistic...

You think the deaths of soldiers is preferrable to another term of GWB as President...

You think FAIR, is...

You liken the Perdue factory to a concentration camp...

You think Clinton was a paragon of ethics...

You think the 2000 election was "stolen"...

You feel my pain...

You think "choice" applies only to abortion...

You think Mumia is a political prisoner...

You think the word "unilateral" is defined as "without France, Germany, and Russia"...

You think that every misbehaving child has ADD or needs therapy...

You're still convinced there are no infidels in Baghdad...

You believe that AIDS is spread by a lack of federal funding.

If you think polls should dictate morality.

You think that consenting adults can engage freely in every activity except capitalism.

You believe that Clarence Thomas is corrupt, but Janet Reno is doing a good job.

You think the really alarming violence takes place outside the abortion clinic.

You believe that global warming is caused by white Europeans and not a normal fluctuation of the Earth's weather patterns.

You pray to "The Woman Upstairs."

You pale at the execution of child killers, but defend the killing of unborn children as an expression of choice...

You think we never gave peace a chance.

You believe the National Rifle Associations helps criminals while the American Civil Liberties Union protects the innocent.

You feel good about the MicroSoft court case.

You protested American intervention in Vietnam, but support American intervention in Haiti, Somalia, and Bosnia.

You think the real evil is American oil and tobacco companies and not Cuba or China.

You begin sentences with the words "I feel."

Your driver's license has a hyphen because for you one last name just isn't enough.

You don't think "All in the Family" is a very funny program, but watch it anyway because Meathead makes a lot of sense.

You think OJ is out looking for the real killers.

You think it takes a village.

You think that the words "to promote the general welfare" in the Constitution mean to promote welfare generally.

You think that, even though more people voted against him than for him in both the 1992 and the 1996 presidential elections, Bill Clinton had a mandate.

You think that conservatives, like preservatives, ought to be federally regulated.

You ever wore earth shoes.

You think sexual harassment is rampant, date rape pervasive, domestic violence common and Paula Jones is lying.

You believe Anita Hill, but think

You can't figure out how Ronald Reagan won 49 states in 1984.

You have ever wondered out loud, "Why can't we all just get along?"

You think the New York Times prints all the news that's fit.

You think that Rush Limbaugh is just an entertainer.

You think Jesse Jackson is a good spokesman for the black community.

You spent Columbus Day reading Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.

You reach the limits of your talent and then complain that you ran into a glass ceiling.

You wear more ribbons on your lapel than in your hair.

You think that the really dangerous McCarthy was Joe, not Eugene.

You blame the Unabomber's parents.

You fail to see the connection between Lenin and Lennon.

You have ever agreed with Martin Sheen or Barbra Streisand...

you've ever left your sociology class thinking, "That professor really knows what he/she/it is talking about."

you associate the words "model American" with "Bill Clinton"

you think Dan Rather represents media impartiality

your response to anything Rush Limbaugh says is, "Well, he's fat."

the first word in the description of your hair color is "neon"

you've ever tried to protect the ozone layer

you've stood for animal rights, but wear leather belts and sandals

you've ever given a dollar to a bum so he can buy more liquor ... ummm ... food

you ever use the words "Clarence Thomas" and "Uncle Tom" in the same sentence

you are a vegan

you have a bumper sticker that says "You Can't Hug With Nuclear Arms" on your car

you believe diversity represents the extinction of the white race

you've ever walked around carrying one of those Javahhh mugs

you pay a 185 percent markup for organically grown food

you cheered for "Obstructing Justice Simpson" last Tuesday at 1 p.m.

you don't think it's right to kill rapists and murderers, but do think it's right to kill babies

you have anything to do with the Compassionate Living Fair

you want more funding for AIDS research but less for cancer, despite the fact that cancer kills many more people per year

you have the entire menu at Cup-A-Joe memorized

you consider yourself open-minded but refuse to listen to anything Jesse Helms has to say

you abhor censorship unless it's censoring race, religion, Conservatism, Western culture or Rush Limbaugh

you found yourself unemployed after this past November's election

you're a dope smoker or a womanizer ... oh, sorry, that's "You might be a Clinton cabinet official if ..."

you're the dolt who stole the "Helms '96" bumper sticker from my car

you think the phrase, "... separation of church and state" is in the Constitution

you cry, "You can't legislate morality," but defend the Roe v. Wade decision in order to legalize your moral position on abortion

you stay informed by watching MTV News

you have an "I'm Straight But Not Narrow" button pinned to your book bag

there is a ring in any part of your head other than your ears

you think religion is bad for school kids to learn, but think condom giveaways are just what schools need

you molest campaign workers, then lie about it on national television ... oops, my mistake again, that's "You might be Mel Reynolds if ..."

you think Jesse Jackson is a good spokesman for the black community

you think Jesse Jackson is good at anything

you lie in bed at night worried that Pat Robertson might be out to get you

you attribute the rising illegitimacy rate, crime rate or problems in the inner city to Ronald Reagan

you've ever held up a grocery store line trying to pick between plastic, which isn't biodegradable, or paper, which cuts down innocent trees

you think the National Organization for Women is made up of average heterosexual women with no lesbian agenda

you're on the committee to construct the Gay Jewish Women's Cultural Center -- there's a slight chance you're a liberal

you blame Ronald Reagan and George Bush, but not the spend-happy "Democrooks" for the huge national debt

banning assault weapons is your solution to end crime (what do you mean punish the criminals?)

you tell me how to live by telling me I can't tell people how to live And finally ... you think Ted Kennedy is sober and monogamous.

Care to discuss the topic?

Gunner

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

Oh, right. Like that liberal jeb bush intruding on that man's life in florida.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:43:32 GMT, Gunner brought forth from the murky depths:

You don't?!?

You trust 'em for the weather?

Yours isn't?

Yeah, what is it with that yuppie crap, anyway? By spending NO money on pesticides and growing healthy crops which pests leave alone, the cost should be less than Clone-Grown foods.

KEAALGSEO!

Isn't he the most bigoted man in America?

Shrub's no slouch when it comes to wast^H^H^H^Hspending our hard-earned ducats, dude.

I'm not Beecrofter, but I'll have to answer "Not just now. I have to go out to the truck to remove the "NUKE THE GAY BABY WHALES FOR JESUS" bumper sticker. Someone might come by and mistake me as still being somewhat conservative.

Great list, BTW. ;)

Almost a metalworking question: Who carries the new ceramic bladed knives? I'd like to try a Boker, etc. chef's knife.

P.S: Hey, Gunner. How come your Governator hasn't terminated all those fires yet?

-- Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. ---- --Unknown

Good post Gunner, I read every damn word and I saw myself in there several time but not every time. So I guess I am still somewhere in the middle of it all.

Is this one an incomplete statement?

I could turn it into a multiple choice question but all the choices I can think of would paint me as a sexist or a bigot. :>)

You mean the man whom wants to kill his wife? If she had been an abortion, you would be all for the government not only stepping in, but providing it for free.

Gunner

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

Only the peace of Islamic Terrorists.

Nope..just the temp.

Nope.

Lots of pesticide free organically grown food available much cheaper. Including that grown in my own garden.

??

No..I think its a tossup between him, Farrakan and Al Sharpton. All Liberal Dems btw....

True. Your point is?

Your not?

Boker, Junglee and there are a goodly number of Japanese ones available.

He hasnt been sworn in yet, nor will he be for some time. So not only did the Dems bankrupt California..they are trying to burn it down. I suspect this is similar to the Russians scorched earth policy....

Gunner

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

It was supposed to be something on the order of " but think Clarence Thomas is a lying rat bastard"

Gunner

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

No, you're an idiot.

So, when you are unable to discuss the topic in a reasonable and rational manner, using facts and data to back up your side, and finding yourself both without the ability or the data to do so, you must resort to ad hominem attacks.

Interesting.

Really doesn't say much for your intelligence, your skills at logic or reason, or your grasp of much, beyond raw emotionalism.

Thank you for your opinion. And as we all know..opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one and they all stink.

At this point, am I supposed to call you a doo doo head or something, to make you feel superior and reinforce your self esteem?

Sorry, I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed individual such as yourself. I ferverently hope you have a better grasp of machining, than you do of politics or history.

Gunner

Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 03:28:26 GMT, Gunner brought forth from the murky depths:

I don't see how stirring up the Islamics (not just terrorists) is going to do us any good in the short or long term. Haven't we already lost more men in combat over there than they* killed in killed on

9/11? The more I read in Kaplan's "The Coming Anarchy", the more I fear about what's happening right now. Can we go back to semi-iso status now, please? ;) *And who is "they"? It wasn't SadDamn but likely was our "friends", the Saudis.

Pushover.

Mine, too. Sweet Basil, acorn squash, broccoli, and lemon basil. Next year I'll have corn and green beans, too.

2 popular sayings back in the Gulf War days were "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!" and "Nuke 'em 'til they glow and shoot 'em in the dark."

Indeed. I can't believe Sharpton got 8% in the poll last weekend. Single-Digit-IQ Voters LIVE!

I'm against any waste of our money. It's too hard to get in the first place.

I'm a liberally moderate conservative, I guess.

But who has the good prices, man?

I heard he was in D.C., sitting in a RECALL chair for the Shrub.

I wouldn't put it past Gray Davis. He's done everything BUT so far. I was very, very happy to leave CA in Feb 2002, let me tell you. Best thing I ever did.

-- Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. ---- --Unknown