OT-John Kerry

Our imperialism is manifest in our military presence all over the world. But it isn't traditional imperialism. We haven't taken over territory and people so much as we have attempted to control the relationships among other people.

-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.

You are right. And the U.S. put troops on the Mexican border to help hasten the French departure.

Monroe was president quite a while after Washington and Jefferson. He did fail to follow his elders' good advice.

-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.

To the extent that I know much of anything, it is a result of a lifetime of self-directed study. I hated school and was a terrible student for the brief time I was one - beyond high school, that is. I didn't have much choice about high school. High IQ - low scholastic aptitude. Like the old guy in The Postman, I know stuff.

-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.

(snip)

I've noticed a trend in all the "evidence" you've presented, though. It seems to have a very strong anti-Bush bias.

First you gotta have wheat AND chaff before you can separate them. ;)

Got that right.

I think it's called "chutzpa".

Like I said. "Trade". People that are fighting are not buying or selling what we want. Not as much of it, anyway.

The fire bombing of Dresden, fire bombing of Tokyo, the Blitz, etc are all examples where non-military targets were attacked and innocent civilians deliberately targeted, in order to *break the will* of the enemy population to resist. The Allies even gave this tactic a name, they called it *total war*. No allied officer was ever called a "terrorist" for waging it.

Gary

I remember Belgrado and Rotterdam. It was surrender or there will be another city 'ausradiert'. HTH

"The Postman Always Rings Twice"?

There was no good reason for the US to assume the colonial role of the French. But it did, which got us into a war of attrition where none of our national interests were at stake. The only thing of US interest in that country was the blood of US servicemen.

The best thing we could do was to get out immediately, but our politicians wouldn't just order a pull out, because it would cause them to lose face. So the people had to force the issue in the streets and at the polls. That took *far* too long, and our servicemen paid a price in blood for the delay before sanity finally took hold and we did withdraw.

Blaming those trying to get our people out of Vietnam is blaming the wrong people. The ones responsible for American blood being spilled were those who ordered those troops to Vietnam in the first place.

Gary

Well, yeah, that's the Party line. I watched it all happen and that's not what it looked like to me. Or to my slightly younger relatives who served "in country".

Harold Burton (Collum Puniceus)

That could be. When I said "trade," I of course meant voluntary trade.

-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.

(snips)

No, "The Postman."

-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.

Sorry Jim, on this subject you are totally wrong.. Sorry buddy. Ill not argue with you about it as you are completly convinced you have the whole story.

Ill simply note that Im in complete agreement with those that think Jane Fonda should have been tried, convicted and executed for giving aid and comfort to the enemy and treason. And buried next to the Rosenbergs.

Ill withdraw from this subject.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

I believe he means the movie with Kevin Costner. Sue

If you google "Bush lies" that's what you're gonna get. I glanced at the pages, and they seemed to represent the breed. Some of the stuff seemed to have some reference or cite associated with them.

accidentally

direction

business,

True, but they did express some concern about possible war crimes trials if they lost the war.

Jeff

The CIA was certain. I was certain. The US gave him WMDs and it's blessing years ago.

And you live a naive life if you believe any official line.

You believe because you want to believe in spite of evidence to the contrary.

I was jokingly referring to the movie with Jack Nicholson. Movies that Costner starred in would be way too obscure to reference.