OT-John Kerry

Like Libya?

Chuckle

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Reply to
Gunner
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Your welcome.

Does that mean you are not going to answer the question, by which we can determine which way you are biased?

Ive noted recently a decided spin that some folks tend to perform when finally, they get their own ox gored.

You really need to put a bandaid on that booboo before it gets infected.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Reply to
Gunner

(snips)

"Isolation" was what the detractors called neutrality, the policy Washington and Jefferson urged us to follow. Of course, neutrality doesn't allow for world-wide empire, so the politicians had to ditch it, starting in 1898, if not before. By the New Deal, the chattering class had consigned neutrality to the dust bin of history. It's still there, waiting for some politician with integrity and intelligence to restore it to its proper place as our guiding principle.

-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.

Reply to
Robert Sturgeon

Jim...you have a curious blind spot. Others besides myself have given you very good and reliable examples of how the protestors caused the deaths of our troops. Examples I too can back up.

Other than JFK, perhaps the only real president to fight the war in RVN was Nixon..and he inherited a bag of bloodworms that even he couldnt handle, once all the damage had been done.

LBJ claimed not an outhouse in vietnam would get bombed without his sayso. He micromanaged the war based on the polls and protests that week. He setup ROE that were impossible to live with without costing American lives, just to name a few.

As Greg (?) said..indeed I also encountered NVA and Cong prisoners who fought harder because of the support from Hollywood. etc. Most of those poor bastards came south pushing a bicycle covered with supplies, 2000 miles, and without encouragement from the protesters (and the AK47s of their Political Officer), would simply have quit and gone home.

Gunner

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Reply to
Gunner

He's not the only one. Not by a long shot.

Neither is it yours. Most of what you have is opinions; very little else.

That scale would put you at about 312.

Abrasha

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Reply to
Abrasha

And you at -312?

Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. Benjamin Disraeli

Reply to
Gunner

Yes, more reading indicates you're correct about that.

US somehow gets bashed whether it acts or not. If it does, it's too little too late or completely unjustifiable: If it doesn't, it's a nation of uncaring bastards.

Can't win either way, might as well act and conquer? What's an occasional carthago delenda est to such a filthy bunch of imperialists? :)

Reply to
John Husvar

Absolutely. They gave up a program that was not working. Chemical or even more frighteningly biological programs are much easier to hide. There are no different than chemical plants or drug plants.

Do you think that Libya is our friend now? Have we made them see the light? Do they now believe that we have the right to invade whoever we like? Do they now believe Israel has a right to be a racist state?

Pete.

Reply to
Peter Reilley

We were invading their country. Of course they were dedicated. Of course the ARVN had to be prodded out of helicopters, they didn't care what was going on.

Your blind spot is the definition of original causation. There was no causation from anti-war protesters. The real driving force behind US soldiers getting killed was the govenmentt taxing it's citizens to get money, to raise an army and send them overseas.

That's the root cause and until that is interrupted the entire CF will keep on happening.

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

America First party?

Jim

================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================

Reply to
jim rozen

Yep.

Ah, the Last Honest Man? Can you really free yourself from bias in making your judgments? It's pretty tough to do.

I'm not the prosecutor. It's not my job to present the evidence. I'm only commenting on, or merely repeating, supposed "evidence" that has already been presented to the court of public opinion. I never attested to its accuracy, and I always made clear that the source wasn't me.

No one disputes that

Almost always the case in factual disputes.

Anyone who calls Bush on some of the things he has done is subject to being labeled as engaging in "hate speech." The Bush administration has a historically low tolerance for dissent, reflexive secrecy, and the usual penchant for attacking its detractors. Remember Ashcroft's comment about Bush's critics? So move past it, look at the actual content, and judge for yourself.

Sorry. "Hating" Bush is common in America today. There are many good reasons for doing so, if you ask them. That fact alone hardly discredits the factual accuracy of what is reported. Logical fallacy. If one listens only to Bush Leaguers, on gets a different story, of course. Use your own judgment to evaluate what you see.

Yeah. Me too. I ain't spilling any tears for Saddam's demise, and I think the Iraqi people have a far better chance at a decent future than ever before. How we got there is another matter, but also water under the bridge at this point.

Not gonna happen. Too many special interests want that illegal immigration.

One wonders how much influence ANY presidential action can really have on something as large, complex, and ill-understood as the economy.

Well, Congress is un an unprecedented spending spree, totally out of control. Bush has also recently tossed out ideas that involve massive spending, with no suggestion of how to actually pay for them. "Tax and Spend" is bad enough; but "Cut Tax and Spend More" is far worse.

I have studied this issue exhaustively, and so far no "magic bullet" fix has appeared on the horizon.

Total BS of the "first thing we do is hang all the lawyers" variety. But par for the course.

Then who do you suppose makes up the "self seeking, self interested Teachers Associations and Unions"?

Agreed. One thing we need to do is require teachers to get a degree in a real subject, not "education." Educational theory and methodology can be sufficiently taught as a minor.

No Bob, I don't wanna try to convince you of anything. Tilting at windmills and all that. ;-)

I do. I've actually stayed in the "condemned barracks." Ugh. i could comment A LOT more on military and VA medicine, but you may not believe me and I'm unwilling to reveal sources.

Basically true. But the hard numbers are out there. Bush is using the same military Clinton left him. Look to see exactly what Bush has or has not done to restore funding in these areas.

Absolutely.

A major problem is that the media is covering the Dems like a horse race, who's pulling ahead, etc. They almost never report any details of their future plans and past records, unless it's something inflammatory.

C'mon, Bob. You LOVE Bush, admit it! You think he's the best thing since pre-sliced bread. I saw that Bush in 2004 bumper sticker on your truck! ;-)

Remember, I'm not the prosecutor, I'm just another juror like you. I've presented no evidence here, I've only commented on, or repeated, the evidence I've seen. Make up your own mind. I never undertook the prosecutorial function to convict. As I wrote, you gotta separate the wheat from the chaff.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff McCann

As usual, factually correct.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff McCann

Even better - stop being imperialists. It's expensive in both blood and money, and we're not vicious enough to make it pay. We'd do better by sticking to trade.

-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.

Reply to
Robert Sturgeon

Thanks. I try to stick to facts instead of going off on a rant, as is the usual usenet procedure. I don't always succeed.

-- Robert Sturgeon, proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy and the evil gun culture.

Reply to
Robert Sturgeon

Gunner:

Thanks again you have done my work for me.

I'm an open minded person who really enjoys a good debate with anyone willing to seriously listen to another persons point of view. Condescention and smart assed remarks are your stock and trade so why would I want to waste my time and band width answer your question?

Would I be wrong in assuming you have already labelled me a weak kneed Liberal/ Socialist?

Jimbo

asberry

reliability,

Reply to
Jimbo

Just curious, so please forgive my nosiness. It is obvious that you are well educated. What is the extent of your "formal" education?

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff McCann

It will be called the heavy, whether it is acting one or not, so long as the image is useful to any political group. In this case, the "liberals" infesting the Democrat party, the many corrupt third world governments, and the corrupt UN officials.

The main complaint is that we do not give them *enough* money. The second complaint is that we "meddle" in other countries, usually by trying for some accountability regarding where that money went.

As for the UN, look up the Oil for Food program. Did you know that the UN refuses to allow an audit of that program? Any idea of how many MILLIONS of dollars went through it?

We will be called the heavy so long as the US exists. The hell with what they think.

Reply to
Offbreed

Show me a graveyard with 300,000 Jews in it and I'll agree.

Show me a graveyard with 300,000 Palistinians in it, even.

Reply to
Offbreed

Most of our "imperialism" is related to trade, trying to stabilize sources of goods.

Aside from Israel. Oooooh, such "Imperialism", supporting a country the size of a California county. Gonna take over the world.

Reply to
Offbreed

Oh but you are incorrect.

The Monroe Doctrine and set for by James Monroe ended Jefferson isolation with the very next presidency. How can you remain isolationist and neutral and then threaten to blow the crap our of any other nation that attempts to set up a colony in the new world.

Remember Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Monroe? The Independent

Reply to
Jim Dauven

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