OT- Kansas joins right to carry

Wow! I suddenly have a new fantasy: This trend spreads to California in my time! Ha...ha,ha...ha,ha,ha,ha...ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,choke,choke,cough, hack! Sometimes I crack myself up. Seriously folks, in this state, the fight must go on if just to keep the status quo.

In California..many counties are effectively Shall issue.

Kern for one

Gunner, ccw, 25 yrs, Kern Co.

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."

- Proverbs 22:3

============================ I live in Kansas and support this legislation -- It is never-the-less a disgrace, not because it was passed but because it is required.

The only thing that appears to be even minimally keeping the rising tide of crime and anarchy under control is the proliferation of state "must issue gun permits" and "no retreat" laws.

I had hoped that the return of the habitual criminal act AKA "three time loser" or "three strikes" law would eliminate the need for such drastic remedies, however our judges and politicians have systematically gutted these provisions.

Unka George (George McDuffee)

I sincerely believe . . . banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale. Thomas Jefferson (1743?1826), U.S. president. Letter, 28 May 1816, to political philosopher and Senator John Taylor

it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity which is destroyed in the process.

can I suggest that people watch the michael moor video "bowling over columbine" (I think that that is what it was called) particularly the section toward the end which compared the experiences of two communities which live either side of the canadian border river. you americans have no idea how much you lose in your quality of life by this course of action. americans who have lived in either australia, new zealand or canada are quite vocal in wanting our quality of life and often migrate from america as a result. the difference is that we dont carry guns.

I'm a gun owner and user myself but we dont carry guns as a matter of routine because of the subtle psychology that develops where the carrier starts seeing everyone in terms of their potential threat. superficially you'd call the attitude paranoia and many of us in the first world worry that it will bring the demise of the USA eventually.

Stealth (sad indeed) Pilot

An armed society is a polite society. We view strangers with respect, not suspicion. If you had ever CCW legally you might have a clue.

Well, if they break into my house while I'm there, I'm going to tend to be deeply suspicous of them, yes. Likewise if they initiate violence against me in any other way.

You mean the movie that even the distributor disclaims as inaccurate?

Well, if you get your facts from michael moore, you really need to work harder on evaluating the validity of your sources, rather than in trying to convince others to do the same. Even the liberals I know, acknowledge that he's lying.

What, by being allowed to defend myself from a criminal? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I understand what I'm losing there...

A friend of mine took a job in Australia, and moved back because of the anti-gun environment.

For someone who doesn't understand the situation, you're sure writing a lot.

So, you're going on the record here, to state that you think that only the criminals should be armed, and that honest, law-abiding citizens should be forbidden the means to effectively defend themselves?

Whose side are you on, exactly?

====================== You are correct, and the CCW/"no retreat" laws are not the best solution but rather the "least bad" solution to an increasingly dis functional judicial system and out of control social structure.

The U.S. citizens have repeatedly used citizen initiatives to pass habitual criminal statutes which require the long term imprisonment of habitual / incorgable criminals, especially those prone to crimes against persons. These are systematically circumvented, generally on the grounds that it costs too much to keep the criminals locked up.

The upsurge in 'home invasions," and "car jackings" leaves the American citizens with two choices: (1) submit, lose your property (and possibly you life), and file [another] police report; or (2) buy a gun and shoot the perps. I will leave it with you to decide which course of action is more cost effective and permanent.

As Australia accumulates a permanent and growing "under class" with no understanding of mainstream social/cultural/economic values you will be increasingly faced with the same problems.

Unka George (George McDuffee)

I sincerely believe . . . banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale. Thomas Jefferson (1743?1826), U.S. president. Letter, 28 May 1816, to political philosopher and Senator John Taylor

A much better solution would be bounties for dead felons. I propose a

1-year tax exemption to anyone who puts a bullet into a felon caught in the act - and a 5-year tax exemption if the felon dies. It would save lots of money.

Any farmer can tell you if you are FOR corn you have to be AGAINST weeds. Ever see a farmer carefully dig up weeds and move them to another field while the corn grows? Felons are the weeds of society, they should be exterminated like weeds or rats or other vermin.

I beg to differ. you have obviously never experienced a peaceful civilised society ....one where guns are not necessary and the women beautiful. you need to experience one. you'll be amazed at how paranoid your life has become.

the tragedy for americans is that as technologically gifted as you have been no one looks up to your society any more. the guns and the needless paranoia turns us off.

Stealth Pilot

Tell you what. Get our criminals to all dissapear, and _then_ talk to me about my guns. Until then, your imaginary utopia is just that. I'm not going to make myself defenseless so you can carry out your little experiment.

My life isn't paranoid at all. I've got the means to defend myself if someone breaks into the house. Problem identified, risk mitigated. The end. It's not stress-inducing, it's stress-eliminating.

Great. Stay in .au than.

Speaking of paranoia, why the pseudonym? Ashamed of your views, or are you afraid of something?

Dave Hinz

Guess what? Most of us haven't either. Concealed Carry laws make criminals find less personal ways to be criminals. They're not stupid, they're dishonest. They know that it's not safe to try to mug someone who might be armed, you see.

And what does that have to do with anything? Presumably your brother was unarmed and anyone intent on problems would know that.

Thing is, in the US, caselaw has shown time after time that they don't have a duty to protect individuals. Period.

The condescending attitude of yours is really detracting from your message. Just so you know. It's not that we don't understand you, it's that you don't understand the situation. Talking to us like we're children, because we understand reality, isn't effective.

Yes, it is. I am free from fear because I am in control of the situation. Dialing 911 and hoping for the best isn't a viable plan.

huh? I thought you were the one with the pseudonym.

If you consider "Dave" to be a pseudonym for "David", then sure. How about answering the other questions, Sparky?

Other than in fevered LSD dreams..which society might that be?

Gunner

"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed, the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line of defense." --Walter Williams

Funny you should mention that. The only time I was in serious danger of attack, was in Soho, London. We'd eaten at a chinese place not far from Piccadilly Circus, and went a block too far into an area we shouldn't have been in. Immediately, 2 of the 5 of us were aware that things were very much not right. We had two groups converging on us by the time we convinced the other three that we shouldn't be there.

Of course, they knew we'd be unarmed, being England and all.

I have never, in 30-some years, had an experience anything like that in the US.

Yeah, he does that.

This American certainly views people I don't know with suspicion when they are flagrently breaking our laws.

Which course of action might you refer to?

Most Americans don't carry guns either. Perhpas you have an erronious impression because a very few who do (or legally could) carry guns make so damned much noise about it. Most Americans don't care for that any more than you do.

That's ridiculous. Threats are threats, regardless of the awareness level of those around them who may be at risk. The response of most reasonable people to perceived threat is to distance themselves from said threat ASAP. Most Americans live in and go places where that is easily done -- so they don't need to carry weapons and they don't.

Now who is viewing his neighbor with prejudicial suspicion? You might call it paranoia; I'd call awareness of one's environment prudent. See situations as they are, which may occasionally not be quite as one might hope them to be.

I think tolerating lawlessness and egregious greed is what will bring about the demise of the USA if we don't get that turned around.

ok it is an accident of history.

I was trying to protect my daughter from predators when I originally set up my internet account. I was reading through one of our safety authority's interminably stupid safety magazines (I'm an australian pilot) when I noticed an article on transponders in aircraft. the article intoned pilots to have one and fit one to protect commercial aviation. the notion is crap. a. the transponder costs $aus2,500 to buy and about every three years needs an altitude calibration at about $aus300. it does absolutely nothing for the owner. b. the nearest I get to commercial aircraft is in a circuit when a transponder is really going to be useful. at other times they are at least 10,000 ft above me. the article had the banner heading that without the transponder on and in mode C you were a stealth pilot.

just as I read that I looked up and the installation process prompted for a user name. I typed in "Certified CASA Stealth Pilot" because I have no intentions of installing a transponder. I later condensed it down to Stealth Pilot because in all fairness the Civil Aviation Safety Authority hadnt certified me.

as it happens my wife and daughter never used the account. the string is configured somewhere in free agent.

I have held office in one of our national aviation organisations and the anonymity allowed me to make honest independent comment.

so there you have it. Stealth Pilot

Did you let any of the two groups live?

Indeed.

Gunner

"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed, the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line of defense." --Walter Williams

We were very outnumbered and without effective means to overcome the imbalance in numbers. They didn't follow us once we got into the better-lit area. I do _not_ like being defenseless and threatened, it's not a good feeling.

Some people apparently confuse that feeeling with a utopian society.