OT Regrowing lost limbs

Research is ongoing that could turn on genes that would regrow lost limbs.
To the topicpolice amongst us, this is of obvious interest to those of
us who are not careful around metalworking machinery.
Funded by DARPA to help a unusually high number of Iraq war survivors who lost limbs.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/chi-0609290295sep29,1,3236597,print.story?coll=chi-news-hed
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Can they regrow brain to help reading the charter of that group and help finding the right group to post to? That would be great!
Nick
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Lets see, 20 people reply to the $1 million idea, and thats OK, but 1 person posts an interesting topic to this group only, and he's spamming. I think your taking this "Net Nanny" job way to serious. gary
wrote:

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I mostly react on off-topics that are new and are posted by the most wellknown members of the OT-gang here. And what is interesting for this group is defined in its charter and neither by iggy nor you:
1. The following is the original rec.crafts.metalworking charter, for reference.
Charter -------
Charter -- REC.CRAFTS.METALWORKING
The USENET newsgroup, rec.crafts.metalworking, is a newsgroup which discusses various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not limited to):
machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.; numerical control of such machines; welding, whether by gas, arc, mig, tig, thermite, or other methods; Metal joining, whether welding, brazing, soldering, riveting, screwing, folding, etc. (this section was added during the discussion) casting various metals by various methods; hardening/tempering various metals; blacksmithing/forging; spinning and hammer work; sheet metal work; jewelry-making; purchasing and/or reconditioning metalworking tools and machinery; interesting projects; books on metal technologies and history;
Example areas of interest:
knife/sword making; automotive repair; steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are welcome!); art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures; gunsmithing; toolmaking, such as for woodworking, further metalworking, etc.;
While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also quite welcome.
Nick
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snipped-for-privacy@gmx.de (Nick Mόller) wrote in wrote:

In your case it wouldn't help at all: DARPA is only studying REgrowth of previously existing tissues.
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Something interesting from that article
``Badylak said DARPA became interested in regenerative medicine because of the massive increase in the ratio of wounded military personnel. In all wars from the Revolutionary War up to the first Gulf War the ratio of wounded soldiers to those killed was 2.5 to 1. The early '90s saw a dramatic change with the advent of body armor, which protected the torso and head but left arms, legs and neck exposed. In the Afghanistan and Iraq wars the ratio of wounded to dead is 9 to 1.''
This means that if the modern medicine and body protection did not make such wonderful advances, the losses among the US soldiers would be (9+1)/(2.5+1) = 2.9 times higher. That means that without those advances, the number of dead would have been approximately 2,600*2.9 = 7,540 soldiers.
The total number of US dead and wounded seems to be 2,600*10 = 26,000 soldiers. This could involve some double counting if wounded soldiers return and are again wounded or killed, but probably not much.
The number that I recall about Soviet losses in Afghanistan, is that during the entire 8 year war, the Soviet Union lost about 15,000 soldiers (IIRC). Assuming that the Soviets had a 2.5:1 ratio of wounded to dead, the total Soviet casualties were 37,500 soldiers dead and wounded.
In three and a half years in Afghanistan, on a pro rata basis, the Soviet loss would have been about 6,562 killed soldiers and 15,406 total casualties.
In three and a half year in Iraq,, the US loss is 2,600 dead soldiers soldiers and 26,000 total casualties.
That means that we are in a shitty situation in Iraq.
i
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Compared to previous wars, 2,600 dead would be a one day event. I'd rather be dinged than dead. As far as shitty, all wars are and all wars will be. When you lose a war the shitty spreads to the civilians standing on the sidelines.
The Iraq theater of operations has been going on long enough that any service person involved has had time to not re-enlist. None of these fine people that have served were drafted.
To refresh your memory, we had more than 2600 innocent civilians killed on 9/11.
But back to regeneration. If DARPA funding could have success then it would be a wonderful benefit to society.
Wes S
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snipped-for-privacy@lycos.com wrote:

Wes, good perspective
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"Ignoramus22416" wrote: (clip) Funded by DARPA to help a unusually high number of Iraq warsurvivors who lost limbs. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ So we can thank President Bush, not only for protecting us from terrorism, but for stimulating medical research.
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wrote:

Without any irony, yes, such research is very valuable if we expect it to bring results.
i
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wrote:

It's no secret that wartime is when a great deal of scientific research happens. It's also no secret that said research has side-benefits which have a staggeringly positive impact.
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wrote:

Nuclear Energy: WW2's most lasting advancement in Physics.
Mass-produced anti-biotics (including Penicillin): WW2's most lasting advancement in Medicine.
Synthetic Fabrics (including Nylon): WW2's most lasting advancement in Chemistry
The "fallout" from the "Space Race" is still occurring and, possibly, will continue for many years.
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RAM³ wrote:

Ok, still off topic, but I saw a recent documentary - its not just lost limbs...apparently the "IED" roadside bombs are creating havoc with head injuries/brain damage - the vehicle protects the soldiers from direct blast damage, but they get thrown around the inside violently.
Modern field medical practice means that a lot of people who, in previous wars, would have died on the battefield or soon after, now get home to be horribly injured for the rest of their lives. Bugger of a situation, irrespective of the politics involved.
And, on a pessimistic note, I wonder how long before the Afghan poppy harvest starts being pushed to disenchanted soldiers in a pretty awful seemingly unwinnable conflict...shades of Vietnam all over again...
Andrew VK3BFA.
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On 30 Sep 2006 07:42:09 -0700, "Andrew VK3BFA"

The American Civil War, like most of the European wars, resulted in vast numbers of amputees. The single biggest killer in most wars through that , including the American Civil War, was infection/disease, followed by the bayonet. Family and other group photos for many years after the Civil war showed significant numbers of males missing one or more limb. For those of you who are old enough to remember WW1 vets...raspy breathing, rhumby eyes and missing limbs were very common..the result of gas attacks and the machine gun..but still, infection and disease was one of the biggest killers..but because of the huge artillery barrages...fewer survived traumatic injuries. WW2..the same. If you survived the initial injury..your later years were spent in more comfort..so to speak.
Vietnam was the turning point in medical survival rates. Horrendous injuries that at any other time in history that would have gotten you a #3 triage...were survivable..and survivable with little obvious note in later years. I can give you many examples of faces blown off, skulls blown away etc etc and yet today the survivors lead generally mostly normal and mundane lives. Plastic surgery, facial reconstruction and rapid advances in neuro techniques are keeping people alive long after historically they should have been a guest of graves registration.
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3
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Yup, and countless other technologies.

And yet we still have idiots complaining about "all that money being spent on the war / shot off into space on a rocket". They just don't understand that that money employs people in high-tech jobs, and furthers research that has unanticipated benefits. Ah well...
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In 1959 my mother won a Door Prize at the Grand Opening of a local business: a 6-transistor Hitachi portable radio - a $35 value when Coca-Cola was going for $.05/bottle.
When I first started programming computers, they were [except for the Collins machines] all built with discrete components on circuit boards. The first one was an IBM 1620 with 40K BITS of magnetic core storage.
Now, I'm using a portable computer [laptop] with well over 200 times that machine's memory, a far more powerful, and faster, processor, and more disc storage than most mainframes had 10 years ago.
Had it not been for the electronics revolution required to develop Integrated Circuitry for the Space Program my career would not have happened and I wouldn't have my pension today.
The medical telemetry developed for NASA has been saving lives here on Earth for over 30 years.
As to the idiots - all they know how to do is to pull the "Party" lever every couple of years...
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There are different kind of military expenses, some benefit society in broad ways and some do not. A $100,000 payment to a family of a dead soldier does not bring about a technological revolution. Same applies to efforts to make equipment that is lost in combat, this is simply an expense with no "side benefit". Efforts to regrow limbs are of a more beneficial variety.
i
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 03:30:55 +0000 (UTC), Ignoramus25463

Not technical, most likely, but that money is going into the economy to buy goods and services.

High-tech employment is a side benefit in my mind, Iggy, all things considered.

A more direct, obvious benefit, sure. But the money spent, either way, is going to people who will spend it hiring people like you and me, for instance. (Oh, about that - I'm back at GE Healthcare and loving it. The job I took in january was very much not as advertized among other problems).
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I believe the term is "Spin-off technology".
And very true
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3
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on Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:55:08 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

    It is during wars that there is an interest in getting a technical advantage over the enemy, either in offensive ways (taking the battle to "them", eg the 'water tanks' of ww1, smart bombs of ww2, etc.), defensive means (radio intercepts, radar, body armor, und so weiter), or in preserving "human capital", e.g. soldiers. (The modern soldier is not cheap labor.)     Just as Infantry 2nd Lieutenants will make more executive decisions in a week of combat than most civilian executives make their whole career, so providers of "combat medicine" will see more traumatic injuries of all natures than their civilian counterparts, aside from some rather "active" trauma centers. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Drs in a MASH will still have more than enough opportunities to try something "new", and see what really works, than the civilian world.     Rehab has a similar motivation; and "material". Strong healthy bodies with a drive to recover as much functionality as possible, leads to such things as amputees joining the President on his morning run.
    The problems now facing medical technologist come from the fact that the most exposed portions of the human body in modern warfare is the head, especially the eyes. Deafness from not only explosions and gunfire, but working environments (flight decks for example. If you think a jet engine is loud inside the airliner, try standing outside ...) is also an occupational hazard.
     -- pyotr filipivich Monotheism, someone has said, offers two simple axioms: 1) There is a God. 2) It's not you.
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