I have a 20x Kowa - a good spotting scope but it really needs a bit more power. The optics are OK, but I could certaily see the difference when I looked through a Leupold next to me on the line. Cost a LOT more, but you coudl see the difference. I bought a second hand 20-60X 80mm scope a couple of months ago, and I am impressed. Probably Chinese made, and I can look up the brand name when I go home next week. you need more than 20x magnification, and the bigger lens helps a lot as well. I have not been impressed with Bushnell scopes for a long time - I have a cheap Tasco which is much clearer than the Bushnell it replaced. Geoff
This topic had been discussed in the past in one of the groups I used to follow. The target shooters said that Champion's Choice and Kowa were the two brands of lower priced scopes that had good optics. A lot of the guys had gone through the search for decent scopes and over the years had bought less expensive ones and couldn't see clearly through them despite relatively high magnifications 45-60x. Their experience had been that Kowa's and Champion's Choice scopes had good optics.
Here are some quotes from the discussion in 2000
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I can make a specific recommendation here. We use spotting scopes in NRA Highpower shooting all the time.
The most highly recommended of the moderate priced scopes, and the kind I have, is the Champion's Choice CC645 22 x 60mm spotting scope. It has a 60 mm objective, a standard 22x eyepiece, and excellent optics. The eyepiece mounts at a 45° angle, which is desirable for most shooting.
I have looked through a lot of spotting scopes, and I would not even consider buying any other scope that costs less than about $600 including eyepiece.
If greater magnification is desired (not usually needed for shooting sports) up to 50X eyepieces are available for $50 each. A clamp to adapt the scope to a tripod mount is $16.00 and a padded water resistant cover, which can be left on the scope when it is in use, costs $25.
You will find that most scopes in the higher price ranges are priced without the eyepiece, which can cost more than the entire Champion's Choice scope.
Available from Champion's Choice, Inc., 201 International Blvd., LaVergne, TN 37086, phone 800 345 7179.
PS: If I absolutely had to have a more compact scope, I would buy the
50mm Kowa from the same company for $150-$220.
tb _________________
Look for someone with a used 77mm Kowa who upgraded to the new 82mm scope and buy their old scope from them, Great spotting scope.
_____________________
Chase-- One that I find highly recommended is the Champion's Choice 22x60mm, with the 45 degree eyepiece, sold by (oddly enough) Champion's Choice, Inc.
their info: Champion's Choice, Inc.
201 International Blvd. Lavergne, TN 37086 PH: 615-793-4066/800-345-7179
CC caters to the competitive shooting community, and their scope is a great value. A lot of them are used out there.
Dale ______________________
Saw your CBL question about scopes. Think I know where you can get a good one with early stand and extensions. Guy just had one on Ebay that did not sell. He had a starting bid of 200.00 and no one bid. It is a Bausch & Lomb Balscope Sr. 20 X 60 that seems to be in beautiful condition.
The other guys talk about the Kowa, I had a chance to place a brand new Kowa next to a B&L Balscope Sr. last summer and look at 30 cal. bullet holes at 600 yards on white paper. Both scopes were equal in bringing out the shot holes. The Kowa we agreed was about 5% brighter (it has a 77MM objective so obviously) but as far as seeing the holes, no better. I have three Balscope Sr., two Bushnell 45s (also excellent) and a earlier B&L from the 40s. They made the Sr. from 50s to 80s and were the top all US made scope in Rochester, NY. Don't know anything about the one they are telling you about. I have been shooting competition since l956 and went to Camp Perry in 57 first time. I have been on four US international rifle teams, owned about 12 spotting scopes, six now and you won't go wrong. I have a
600 yard range at my shop so I look at long distance all the time. Write the guy, get him to send you pictures you can download. Do not think you will be sorry.
The problem with Bushnells & the like is that the quality is inconsistent. Looking through one doesn't tell you much, because the next one could be a lot worse. I wanted a small scope for 10 meter air gun shooting, and went for the Bushnell "Competitor", which is admittedly the bottom of the line. I had to go through 5 in the store to find one that could focus that close, despite Bushnell's claims that they would ALL work at that distance. I have a 60 mm Spacemaster that I got rid of the instant I looked through a Kowa 77 mm. I've never heard anyone say they had a bad Kowa, only that occasionally someone will find a Bushnell that looks as good. If you can go to a store and they will let you "cherry pick" a low end scope, you can probably do quite well. Ordering one sight unseen, you could be easily disappointed.
Objective lens dia. is a major factor in resolution. That's why you will see quality 60mm scopes topping out at about 45X. Additional power doesn't help. Using low dispersion glass helps some, but the real answer is to go up in objective dia. That's why the 80mm and up scopes are popular.
I have an early B&L that I picked up at a pawn shop years ago, that can resolve .22 bullet holes at 100 meters very well.
I think it cost me $20
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
The larger the objective diameter, the more light you collect. The more the magnification, the poorer the illumination. So -- to go up in magnification and still be able to see things in poor light, you need to increase the objective diameter as well.
But my 80's are color special - they are deep space watchers. I think to many eye watchers waste big money to look 'big' when their eyes are the weak links.
Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
Of course not. But I don't think big lenses are a good substitute for quality lenses. I am not convinced that a 100mm normal lense will let me see the target as well as a smaller higher quality lens.
Another side affect of larger lenses is they do not work well at low magnifications (accorning to articles I've read).
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