OT: when to shoot back

You da man. :-)

Thanks for the link.

BTW. I generally stay out of OT threads because I figure if I get involved in a back and forth I'd rather it be on topic.

Nevertheless, the reason for the large number of view points and disagreements here are due to the fact that this issue has always been a big grey area in the law, and is up for individual interpretation.

If one police officer begins shooing at what he considers a threat, whether he is right or wrong, the other police officers with him feel obligated to join in because no one wants to be accused of not backing up their partner/s under such a situation.

If the first officer was justified, then no harm, no foul.

But if he was wrong, then they all end up on the hot seat, and like the Sean Bell case I mentioned it becomes a fight to convince the judge that the first officer really thought there was a threat. If this can be done, then it makes no difference whether or not the officer was right.

So begins the selective leaks to the press in an attempt to discredit the victim in a preemptive effort to sway the future judge/jury.

Selective leaks that include information concerning why the police had a right to believe there was a threat. The criminal record of the victim(if one exists). And the conveyance of any physical action they say the victim made that justified blowing him away.

This strategy has worked well for the NYPD here in New York. And the point is that in the reverse situation, a civilian is pretty much screwed.

So the problem is that there is the initial grey area in the law, and then there is the guilt based on whether or not you are "wearing the uniform".

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

For asking a hypothetical question?

Wrong on two counts.

I think authorities would see his question (when to shoot vs not shoot) as thoughtful and highly relevant.

In any case, your opinion and even that of "the authorities" is irrelevant. MN, like most states now, is a "shall issue" state. Any citizen over 21 who takes required training, has no history of criminal activity or mental defect and pays the fee shall be issued a permit.

My pleasure. Why do you need an ejector rod? The Mk III is pretty rugged..for an older Colt. Cranes on them tend to get bent more often, because of the hidious practice of flicking out the cylinder one handed

I think Ive still got one tucked away somewhere.

Indeed. Ive seen more than one bad shooting that was investigated and found to be a "good shoot" by an agency known for bad shootings and cover ups.

When the shooting review board consists of the Chief and a senior Lt......

Gunner, who once wore a Deputy's badge for a few years, in a galaxy far far away.

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

No, I didn't mis anything, Doug.

I'm simply not interested in folloeing along with your hijacked part of this thread.

I thik you've gone way off topic - amd maybe way off the deep end as well.

I made a statement of opinion - you yerll "CITE".

Well cite your own bad self...

I sometimes enjoy being proven wrong because then I learn and will be wiser for it. I always held that researchers might learn most from experiments that don't turn out as expected. That's sometimes when discoveries happen. That said, opinion bears no resemblence to proof. Incompetents and zeolots often have the strongest opinions because that's all they have.

Hoh, golly. Do feel free to share your concerns with the FBI, I'm sure they'd like to know if I've gone round rogue or round the bend. Be sure to spell my name correctly. I live in Fridley, MN. That'll suffice, they won't need a DOB or SSN. Your life could become less boring, ya never know. Offer them coffee and cookies if they come to visit. It's a nice gesture, appreciated even if not accepted. Feebs tend to be a bit tightass.

Ask to see their guns which might be SIGs. They'll notice that. >

Wull ya. It's "Minnesota nice" to deal with bureaucrats and obstreperous but harmless fools about the same.

The clerk at the Anoka County courthouse was actually very pleasant, personable and professional. Solitious even. She had as much of my background check on her screen as she had access to. It worked for her.

So do ya t'ink it'll snow? They say it might.

I see no discussion from the OP afer posting his question.

Wrong! Any suspicions or other biasses they might have are immaterial in a "shall issue" state. Denial must be supported by court record of conviction or finding of mental defect.

One sheriff who decided he was a bit above the law about issuing carry permits got sued, lost, and had to pay legal costs for both sides.

They'd wonder why anyone would bother them with irrelevant trivia.

I'll bet he'll be surprised to learn that!

Karl would have told me. DUH!

Do you supppose it wasn't discussed?

You seem to make a lot of assertions and assurances that are totally incorrect and utterly baseless.

Ooo-kay, yoo betcha. T'ink it'll snow? They say it might. Basketball tournament comin' up, ya know. I'm t'inkin' iceout first week of April, whaddabout you? Have a nice day, say hi to the missus.

I don't think T M T has bothered to see who started this thread. ...lew...

This is a game disguised as a debate for TMT. He likes to push hotbuttons -- he's done this before. "The gummint is going to take away your guns." WHAM, skatey-eight posts some of which try to offer information or at least informed or reasoned opinion -- but the fun is in the flames.

Now he thinks he's pushing a CCW button. That didn't work because CCW holders know better. He seems to think that an "emotional stability" inference or allegation is inflammatory, not knowing and unwilling or unable to learn how things work in shall-issue states. Most states now are shall-issue states. There's even hope for the good citizens of no-issue IL and WS with the current case before SCOTUS.

TMT has now reverted to a style of discourse more commonly seen among junior-high girls: "You're icky." "I'll tell everyone you're icky so nobody will like you." And so on. Unlike teenage girls, unfortunately, he probably won't outgrow it. I hope Karl found some useful answers to his question buried in all the chaff. It was a thoughtful and reasonable question, asked in good faith.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:39:18 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Don Foreman quickly quoth:

He certainly meant counter-clock-wise there, Don.

Now, would you guys please stop feeding the trolls?

-- Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives. -- A. Sachs

Yeh yeh, OK.

The rod kept falling out, and one day I just couldn't find it.

Not a problem if I hit what I aim at. But if I have to reload, the seventh guy may give me a bit of difficulty. :-)

Thanks again.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

Get the Chrome one. Make a statement

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Check the newest sig. Heard it out of the mouth of the plaintif in Heller vs DC today.

Clutch

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:33:28 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes quickly quoth:

I cracked up when he said that to the media yesterday. Not only is it true, regarding the disregard D.C. has for human life, it's a -great- sound byte!

-- Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives. -- A. Sachs

That has to be the best sound bite of 2008 and I really believe it came from the heart.

Wes

-- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller