Ping Gunner: Logic 101

Thought this might help future "discussions" with Gunner, buttbuddee Terrell, and their smooth-brained assaholic ilk.
Lesson 1: The Sillygism:
If p --> q, then ~q --> ~p . ( ~ = "not" )
If p --> q, it is false to say ~p --> ~q, which is, apparently, what most survivalists and rednecks believe.
Examples:
If all men (p) are mammals (q), then it is false to say if you are not a man, you are not a mammal.
It is, however, true to say If you are not a mammal, you are not a man.
Plea for Rationality:
I hope this will help the logically challenged in their reading comprehension of current (and past) events.
Hopefully, mastering the above sillygism should stem some of their silliness.
Esp. Terrells's Crocodile Dundee / N'Yawker macho stupidness. (That's not a knoife.... THIS is a knoife....)..... Please, doc, dig out dat cap dat Nyawker bustid in my azz.....
--

Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:47:03 -0500, "Proctologically Violated"

What the hell are you babbling about? Into the New Years Cheer a bit early?
Or has living in that urban shithole finally twisted you off? You really need to review some of Skinners work with caged rats. Put too many of them into a cage and leave em there, and they start turning neurotic, gay, etc etc...simply nutzo.
Maybe its time for a road trip across America? Time for you to get a different perspective on whats real, and what is simply part of the Beltway Madness.
Further, ...Not all survivalists are rednecks. Not all rednecks are survivalists. Hence a survivalist may or may not be a redneck, and visa versa. In fact, most survivalists are not rednecks, while most rednecks are not survivalists. However, everyone who lives in the Bronx is an overcrowded cage maddened rat.
<G>
Gunner
Gunner
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Gunner Asch wrote:

*plonk*
--
ah

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Gunner Asch wrote:

What about those survivalists who are heavily armed for purposes other than self-defense or hunting? I have many relatives who were survivalists until the Cold War ended, and they've said the heavily armed survivalists they've met were rednecks, and I don't mean Jeff Foxworthy rednecks but more like fascists and Ayn Randians.
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 00:28:20 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@hairdresser.net wrote:

There are a few of them. The FBI claims that there are less than 100,000 Klanners, AB, OWC etc etc in the entire United States, most are simply all mouth and no show.
On the other hand, the Bloods and Crips number about 200,000 across the US. Hardly "all mouth and no show", if you know anything about them.
Bloods and Crips usually vote Democrat, so by your logic, all Democrats are heavily armed blood thirsty gang members involved in organized crime.
Is this the logic you wish to pursue?
Now what do you consider "heavily armed" to be? A 70 yr old collector of vintage Colt single actions may have a 100 of them Does this classify him as a heavily armed fasciat racist?
Im fascinated though, that your ignorance equates rednecks and racists with those that believe in the lessons Ayn Rand gave in her books.
I take it that you have no knowledge of any of the above, other than hearsay commentary from buffoons?
Im curious, what do you think a "survivalist" really is? And what about his/her lifestyle/preps would make you think they are somehow racist fascists?
What part of Objectivism (which is a mixture of minarchism and libertarianism) do you think is fascist and/or racist?
Ill be waiting with great interest for your reply.
Oh,,,this may be of interest to you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand
Gunner
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wrote:

Ha-ha! You have your work cut out for you, PV. In one sentence you're looking at "begging the question," and then move on to "affirming the consequent" without so much as a blink.
Are you sure it's worth the trouble?
-- Ed Huntress
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wrote:

You know, I'm starting to wonder myself....
It's one thing to botch p --> q, and its variations. It's another to botch logic each and every time....
And, it's still another to just totally confabulate reality. To wit, Bloods'n'Crips *voting*? VOTING????? He did say "voting", right? Hmmm, let me check.... Yes he did!!! And ascribing a political party to them, at that?????? goodgawd....
After that, the illogical contortions are just the gravy.
Mebbe Gunner thinks that because some gangs vote on who to kill next, they also participate in local and national politics?
I think what I'll havta do is order some training videos on how the chimp peeple got chimps to grok the sillygism. iirc, they used positive/reward reinforcement. Mebbe each time Gunner gets one right, I'll give him a .45 magnum round or sumpn.
Then, I gotta research what meds are good for misfiring brain neurons.
Mebbe there's radon in Gunner's underground bunker....
I dunno.... this could all be a major research project....
--

Mr. PV'd

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Well, I always thought they were pro-gun, laissez-faire, social-Darwinist conservatives, myself, and that therefore they're probably Republicans. d8-)

Just keep in mind that reason and truth are not Gunner's objectives -- nor are they the objectives of his little kook friends that he spends so much time insulting. Their point is to whip insults and confounding illogic into a big rat's nest of noise, until there's nothing left but a war of homophobic insults.
That's their entertainment. Trying to unravel the illogic for their benefit would be a case of annoying the pig.
-- Ed Huntress
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Ed Huntress wrote:

I doubt they would vote pro-gun as in anti-gun control. Criminals and politicians are the only ones who benefit from gun control. Do you think the b&cs bought their guns legally? They like unarmed citizens, it makes crime safer.
David
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David, even making a serious response to that point is enough to bring one's connection with reality into question. <g>
Here, take a look at the Republicans making a pitch. It's good for a laugh, anyway:
http://current.com/items/89443311/republican_hooking_up_with_the_crips_and_bloods.htm
-- Ed Huntress
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Ed Huntress wrote:

My connection with reality is quite fine, thank you. If you wish to contest what I wrote, I'd like to see it, otherwise this comment is little different from Gunner's usual liquor puris. You're attacking me instead of what I wrote. You're usually better than that.

http://current.com/items/89443311/republican_hooking_up_with_the_crips_and_bloods.htm
I watched it twice. I saw one man identified as a homeless activist. I saw a Rep fund raiser talking about most blacks voting Dem. I saw no one identified as Blood or Crip.
David
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I'm not attacking you, David. I'm making fun of the fact that a grown man would take any of this seriously. Political parties for the Crips and Bloods? Doesn't that make you want to double over in laughter?
It should. And if it doesn't, then you've been hanging around with Gunner too much. <g>

Right. I didn't say that it did. I just found it funny that a Republican fund raiser was talking to those dressed-up black guys, apparently serious activists, about the virtues of the Republican Party. The homeless guy was a nice touch. d8-)
-- Ed Huntress
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Ed Huntress wrote:

There's that, I guess. OTOH, if they B&Cs want to get into serious illegal bucks, what better path than politics? It's not just Illinois, Louisiana and Joisey, after all, there are opportunities everywhere.

Don't hang w/ Gunner, all I see in him is a fellow R90/6 rider and gun owner and those I take with one grain of salt a piece.

Ten years ago, one of those guys could have been Obama. I wonder if the Reps could have offered a better piece of the action. He is an Illinois politician, after all, smart enough to be more careful, so far. As far as we know.
David
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What's better? Drugs. Prostitution. Numbers. Hell, they could even get into finance.

Pffffht.
That's a pretty bleak outlook, David.
-- Ed Huntress
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Ed Huntress wrote:

AT least these are more respectable than politics.

I doubt there are as many openings available as a year ago. Lots of unemployed brokers, I'll bet.

? Tell me why not.

A common reaction to my quest for realism. I don't expect much of Dems or Reps. Up here in Wisconsin, we find Illinoisances amusing. Our political corruption is at a much lower level and they tend to get caught before they get far.
David
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wrote in message

As I said, you have a bleak outlook.

You made the claim. Tell me why.

For all the annoyance and frustration we feel over political corruption, most of it, added all together, hardly makes a blip on the money meter. A few days in Iraq probably wastes more money than all of the political corruption does in a month.
Nevertheless, corruption undermines the whole system, leading to the kind of cynicism you've expressed in the last couple of posts. The trick is to keep your eye fixed on what you say in your last paragraph, which is to keep up your quest for realism. It's the way to go.
-- Ed Huntress
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It's not that funny Ed. I don't know about Bloods and Crips but in Chicago the mob has long standing ties to the Democratic party as do the latin gangs.
Several years ago, investigators found some gang bangers running a drug ring out of the Water Mangement dept in Chicago. These guys were awarded their jobs not based on merit but based on wrangling votes and political connections.
So it's not hard for me to imagine that in a different city a different gang could have similar influence.
--

Dan


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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 13:21:03 -0500, "Proctologically Violated"

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur47784.cfm
EAZY E'S SON HELPS BANGERS REGISTER TO VOTE: Rapper joined journalist Jasmyne Cannick to sign up Crips and Bloods. (October 14, 2008)
*The son of late rapper Eric "Eazy E" Wright and a number of celebrities helped get out the vote in Compton over the weekend by joining voter registration campaign "My Hood Votes," founded by journalist Jasmyne Cannick.
The campaign registered gang-bangers from the Crips and Bloods, as well as non-traditional potential voters throughout the city.
My Hood Votes is us representing us. It's us going out and talking to each other the way that only we can about the importance of having some involvement in the political process, Lil Eazy E told AllHipHop.com, adding that Nov. 4 will be his first time voting in an election. My pops loved Compton. I love Compton. This was the perfect opportunity to get it crackin' in my hometown with my family and take it into the streets.
Cannick said her decision to launch "My Hood Votes" came out of frustration with both presidential candidates and their running mates.
Over the course of the presidential and vice-presidential candidates debates, its become crystal clear that both Democrats and Republicans are focused on one segment of the American population, the middle class," Cannick said. "Hence, the absence of any mention of the word poverty, even though it is a way of life for more than 37 million people in this country. So while the candidates continue to be focused on the wealthy and middle class, in L.A., I've been focused on the hood.
The campaign received support from 93.5 The Beat FM as well as entertainers and community activists that included comedian/Radio Free 102.3 KJLH radio personality Guy Black, actress Terra Menyone from The Shield, The Foxx Hole w/Jamie Foxx co-host Felicia "The Poetess" Morris, Nation of Islam Minister and activist Tony Muhammad.
"http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-gang22.html
Typical of the "we care more" DemonRat party,act like you care about people,spew some phony bs, then run the goverment like your own private mafia.
From the article:Come Election Day, gang members across the city will likely trade their baseball caps and street colors for white shirts and ties.
On Feb. 25, they'll take a holiday from the round-the-clock drug dealing that fuels Chicago's billion-dollar narcotics trade. Instead, they'll be selling candidates.
Fanning out into the neighborhoods, they'll hand out palm cards, shuttle elderly voters to the polls, tally the votes and--on the less admirable side--tear down opponents' signs, intimidate opponents' supporters and maybe pick a few fights."
http://www.slashlegal.com/showthread.php?t 8055 http://www.rightsidenews.com/200810092182/culture-wars/democrats-no-inmate-left-behind-voter-registration-drive.html
Was there anything else you wished to spew about?
Gunner
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http://www.rightsidenews.com/200810092182/culture-wars/democrats-no-inmate-left-behind-voter-registration-drive.html
And you think this proves your case??
I should now spew about you being such a rube for such obvious media con jobs. Goodgawd, Gunner, I mean, you survived this long/far, you gotta be savvy-er than *that*!!
Now, just by way of contrast, in your/our era, were the Black Panthers, who *were*, more or less, the real deal. True social/political activists. Seale, X, Cleaver, all the rest, who's real message was, Do it MLK's way, or do it our way. Talk about carrot'n'stick!!
But, even they became dismantled, with some help by the NYPD et al.
Gang members are *fundamental sociopaths*, incapable of a civil political process. It's lucky they could sit still long enough (or wake up from their nod) to do the photo ops. You KNOW the producer bought those suits 1 hour before the shoot at Men's Wearhouse.
And, strangely enough, your links/cites support the Hillary cry of thug tactics from the obama side. I dint want to believe it, but sheeit, apparently politics, even Congress, has somewhat of a gang mentality.
If you bought alladat dizzying media spin, then you shouldn't object to a paroled pedophile teaching grade school. In principle, yeah, he paid his debt, but for some shit, the price you pay forever is social jitteriness, written into statute. And apparently statistically justified, altho you also have to factor in our genetic penchant for the witchhunt.
Now for
PV's Theory of Gang Logic
Not to go off on a tangent (god forbid), but the preposterousness of Blood/Crip involvement in the political process may not be obvious to some (as Gunner has demonstrated), and the Q is Why is this preposterous out of hand, when some might arger that gangs are just a "rebellion against society".
Indeed, *initial* social forces/alienations/etc involved in gang formation. They are likely similar to any countercultural movement, rebellion, ekc.
But here's the diff: Most movements are borne of some kind of consciousness and education, albeit perhaps alternative readings, etc. There is a very high social consciousness, a philosophical concern with "how things should be". Some get it quite wrong, like the Nazis, but even their efforts had an associated cause, mission. Altho admittedly power does seem to trump many motivations.
In gangs, altho the *initial* impetus may be similar -- the social order, disenfranchisement, poverty, all the rest -- the next immediate subsequent step is much different: It is an adolescently arrested kneejerk *retaliatory* reaction, a fuck-you-ahma-get-mine-and-bus'-a-cap-in-yo-azz response. An immediate short circuit to the notion of power. No philosophical/sociological foreplay whatsoever.
The social rewards are reduced to simply to cars, bling, pussy, money, and guns.
Which, actually, is not all that different from CorPirate CEOs, except that sed CEOs generally play a different kind of music, and don't play it so loudly. CorPirations generally just pay more rent, have a bigger back office, and keep more books.
When I think of that Girls-Gone-Wild asshole, I think his social destructiveness runs a near second to that of LA gangs.... The more sophisticated find ways to mindfuck the Pubic for megaprofit, instead of bogarding them.
With the GGW asshole and his camera crew, at least your kids won't get shot through their bedroom window.
Inyway,
In essence, gangs are a neanderthal version of short-circuited capitalism, if you want to even give them that much credit. They are chess players who realize they don't need to really study sophisticated moves and strategies, because, well, they can just palm your queen.
Gang members are indeed rebels, in a sense, and the short-sighted, like effingGunner, might could celebrate them as such.
But focus on the real issue just slightly, and they quickly become rebels with zero consciousness, zero morality, and zero character. And zero productiveness, zero usefulness to a society that would purport to advance itself.
Incapable of engaging in the political process, beyond the bullshit photo op, that suckers like Gunner fall for so easily.
Not that Congress is doing much of a better job.
--

Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:23:28 -0500, "Proctologically Violated"

It indeed does prove my case. Your obfuscation is noted as is your verbosity in trying to weasel around the fact I proved your buffoonery.
Snicker
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