Stupidity of design. Rant Warning!

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I am in a metric country, but I'm sure the principal applies in North Ameri ca as well.

This is a very common socket kit here. There are many brands, many manufact urers, all are basically the same. The box is very useful, except for one i ncredible annoyance. The sockets go in 1mm increments from maybe 4 or 5 up to 14mm. No one has ever used the 14mm socket, ever. Why wouldn't they leav e it off, and use a 15mm socket in that last place instead?

And, why don't other people ask a questions like this?

Reply to
robobass
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Really ? I use a 14mm socket pretty often . In this case , even a

14mm might be too big for the amount of torque that 1/4" can handle .

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Snag

Reply to
Terry Coombs

I presented this badly. what I mean to say is that with lots of things I bu y, I encounter incredibly stupid design decisions. Maybe it makes the produ ct look better, or seem better at first glance, but once you use the produc t it is quickly obvious that functionality was not the priority.

Reply to
robobass

merica as well.

facturers, all are basically the same. The box is very useful, except for o ne incredible annoyance. The sockets go in 1mm increments from maybe 4 or 5 up to 14mm. No one has ever used the 14mm socket, ever. Why wouldn't they leave it off, and use a 15mm socket in that last place instead?

Really? On what? I live in Germany. I own machines, two cars, and many bicy cles. I don't think I've ever used a 14mm socket. It's like 8, 10, 13, 15,

17, 19,... 12, 16, 18 once every tenth blue moon maybe, but never 14.
Reply to
robobass

"14mm might be too big for the amount of torque that 1/4" can handle" If this is true, you are certainly working on different kinds of things than me.

Reply to
robobass

On Mon, 15 May 2017 05:12:03 -0700 (PDT), robobass wrote:

I have a feeling that many 'sets' are put together by people who have no idea of their use or practicality of the design, as you said.

A 14mm socket will double for 9/16" if used on SAE hardware.

Larger sizes, 15 17 19 are common, but I had to buy a 18mm for use on some of the first Chevy front ends back in the early '80s.

My parents bought a Craftsman rollaway toolset when I got my diploma from UTI in '72. In it was a set like you show, but the main difference was the spinner. It had a screwdriver handle with a 1/4" square end. The thing I really liked about that set was the spinner had an inset 1/4" square socket in the back. I can't tell you how many times I praised the guy who thought that up, because running hard-to-spin nuts down or properly torquing hardware with the spinner handle is much harder with a spinner and quite easy with the ratchet on the back end. It's one of the few things I praised Crapsman for, because a decade later, I had lost a literal pound of flesh and bucket of blood from their tools disintegrating within my grasp as I worked. At that point, I was using power tools only half the time since some of the angles you work at in the auto industry prevents you from seeing the bolt you're working on and there's no room for power. So, when you're giving it everything you have and the tool breaks, your hands move quickly into sharp and immovable objects, before you can pull them back. I had one lady come into the shop one day while I was putting gauze on my hand and heard her scream to the manager about the blood on the engine of her car. He found me in the bathroom with the first aid kit open and tols her "He'll wipe it off after he's done treating his wound." and he walked away. I looked up, she looked away, and we heard no more screeching that day. (Until I got to Searz and slammed the broken ratchet down on the counter with my good hand.) That was one day I got no shit from them about "intentionally breaking tools". How's that for the Searz "Satisfaction Guarantee"?

When I went to Searz to replace that special spinner, they tried to foist off a single ended POS on me. I went to the manager at that Sears store and he wouln't budge, saying "We don't make those any more. Take it or leave it." Since he also had not given me a money back offer, I took it to Corporate. 20 minutes later, I finally got a guy from India on the Searz Customer Service line (one of the earliest displays of outsourcing CS I had seen) who finally had a check for $12 cut for me. I looked high and low for that replacement and only one company made them, Carlyle. Almost a 3 weeks later, I found it and picked one up at NAPA Auto Parts. NM64 is the part number, in case anyone is interested. (Hmm, now CHT DH14, but NM64 gets you there.)

I had trouble with the name "spinner handle", as half the mfgrs call the brace shape their spinner and half called them "speed handles".

Some designs just WORK! So there's the other half of this story, Rob.

Reply to
Larry Jaques

No shit Sherlock . I work on things like cars , motorcycles , and other machinery as needed . I have the correct tools for most jobs , as in 1/4" , 3/8" , and 1/2" drive socket sets - both deep and regular , and none of them are cheap ass Chinese pseudo-steel . I also have a pretty well-equipped machine shop , so those tools I don't have and need can often be made right here at home .

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Snag

Reply to
Terry Coombs

On the slimmest chance there might be a newb reading, do not fall for the _one must have "good"/expensive tools mantra_. I do more, and more complicated things than most. That includes building a complex aircraft and several homes. On my last move I had to leave most of my tools behind. When I replaced the sockets, it was with two large, identical sets of 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" drive which cost less than $100 each. That's because I tend to lose them or weld them into other tools before I break them, and because having duplicates saves time searching for tools. My 3/4" set is also "Chinese pseudo steel," and I haven't broken one of those either. The anti-cheap tool thing is more of an ideology than a practicality. Buying what you can afford, and using it, is a better mantra.

Reply to
Normal Person

I am not trying to get anyone's fur up here. I guess I should have posted i n a different forum. I ask again, 1: Do you really use a 14mm socket? Do yo u actually encounter 14mm hex heads? Give me one example. If you are substi tuting it for a 9/16" then you should say so. That is not something which w ould come up in metric countries, and does not apply to my premise. Also to do so would be slovenly. Like using a Phillips tip to drive a Pozi screw. Real slop. If I did things like that, I wouldn't confess it on a public for um.

  1. Where you need more torque for a
Reply to
robobass

Because there are several different metric "standards" and if you work on Japanese stuff you WILL use the 14, and a 15 would be a total waste.On a Chevy and most weiner wagons, you will never use a 14. Same goes for 11 vs 10, Japs use 10, EVERYWHERE. GM and Wiener wagons use

  1. A lot of bikes use 15.
Reply to
clare

The set is likely asian - Jap standard, not Euro.

Reply to
clare

I was a mechanic here in (metric) Canada for many years - working mostly on Japanese cars, where 8,10,12, 14 and 17mm wrnches will handle over 90% of repairs. On a Jap vehicle I've NEVER used a 9, 11,

13, or 15mm wrench or socket.
Reply to
clare

America as well.

nufacturers, all are basically the same. The box is very useful, except for one incredible annoyance. The sockets go in 1mm increments from maybe 4 or 5 up to 14mm. No one has ever used the 14mm socket, ever. Why wouldn't the y leave it off, and use a 15mm socket in that last place instead?

cycles. I don't think I've ever used a 14mm socket. It's like 8, 10, 13, 15 , 17, 19,...

14mm was the "reduced-size" Japanese standard for M10 bolt heads, 'way back , when they used JIS standards and before they went to ISO.

If you have an old Japanese bike or car, and if your metric set jumped from 13 to 15, you would be MUCH more pissed off than you are about the 14 bein g included in your set. d8-)

Reply to
edhuntress2

You were obviously not using the right tools. In over 25 years of using mostly Craftsman tools in the trade I don't think I broke more than 2 or 3 sockets, no extensions, ratchets, or "johnson bars". I always used the largest drive that would do the job if things looked like they would get tough. I still have the vast majority of my Craftsman tools purchaced in 1969. 1/4 inch drive tools were only used for bench work on alternators and starters and other similar stuff, or in cramped quarters under the dash, etc. 3/8 for all the normal little stuff, and almost exclusively 1/2 inch on all chassis stuff.

Gotta use the right tools for the job. A classmate of mine bought "snap-off" tools at the same time I bough my Craftsman, and he had replaced well over half by the time he finished his apprenticeship. The only advantage to the SO tools was "Snappy" came to the shop in his shiny truck aevery week or two to replace the broken crap, where I had to drive to sears every 6 months to 2 years.

Williams, SK and Proto still make "fat handle extensions" in the guize of nut-spinners. Personally, I use extentions for extensions, and a "door knob" ratchet for a spinner. My "door knob" for the last 50 years has been an SK. I just bought a 3/8 and a 1/2 inch from Princess Auto a few years ago.

Reply to
clare

Gotta remember, there is inexpensive, and then there is CHEAP. No problem with inexpensive quality tools - and there are a LOT of them available today. BIG problem with "cheap" tools, at any price.

Today I could replace my entire set of mechanics tools with decent quality stuff for just over half, in TODAY'S dollars, what I paid for my tools in 1969-=1975 dollars. That is a HUGE difference.

I spent about 20 grand on mechanics tools up to 1990, the vast majority prior to 1975. I started buying tools (a $499 "starter set") back in 1969, when I was earning less than $1.50 per hour and driving cars that cost less than 1/4 that price - - -

Reply to
clare

Yes

Yes

Both rear engine mounting bolts on my bike. (Yamaha FJR)

14mm isn't uncommon. Here are a couple.
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And you'll find it here in the JIS column.

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Reply to
Normal Person

OK then. I stand corrected. My last Japanese car was an RX-2, which bit the dust in 1981. Since then it has been VW, Saab, or now I am a real sucker f or Alfa Romeo. Still... All tools, machines, bikes, pretty much every hex h ead I have experienced here in Europe, uses 10, 13, 15,17, 19, etc. I own l athes, table saws, milling machines...not to mention bicycles. Never seen a 14mm hex head. But I haven't owned a Toyota!

Reply to
robobass

he dust in 1981. Since then it has been VW, Saab, or now I am a real sucker for Alfa Romeo. Still... All tools, machines, bikes, pretty much every hex head I have experienced here in Europe, uses 10, 13, 15,17, 19, etc. I own lathes, table saws, milling machines...not to mention bicycles. Never seen a 14mm hex head. But I haven't owned a Toyota!

I was a real sucker for Alfa Romeo, too. I owned one each '57 and '58 Giull ietta Spiders, one of which I drove through SCCA driver's school. Years lat er, I wrote ad copy for Alfa Romeo when they were headquartered here in NJ.

But they tended to go for the fine-pitch series of metric threads, which we re all but unavailable here at the time. I actually had to order some from Italy in one case.

And then there was the miserable bronze distributor drive gear on my '57 th at gave me ignition-timing hell.

Reply to
edhuntress2

the dust in 1981. Since then it has been VW, Saab, or now I am a real suck er for Alfa Romeo. Still... All tools, machines, bikes, pretty much every h ex head I have experienced here in Europe, uses 10, 13, 15,17, 19, etc. I o wn lathes, table saws, milling machines...not to mention bicycles. Never se en a 14mm hex head. But I haven't owned a Toyota!

llietta Spiders, one of which I drove through SCCA driver's school. Years l ater, I wrote ad copy for Alfa Romeo when they were headquartered here in N J.

were all but unavailable here at the time. I actually had to order some fro m Italy in one case.

that gave me ignition-timing hell.

Ed, Alfas are not so exotic now, I'm sorry to say. They are owned by Fiat, from which you can get your parts, and all screws are Euro standard. The semi-r ecent ones are still real bait for enthusiasts, though. My '02 2 liter has more dents than a trash can, but I pass motorcycles in the Eifel.

Reply to
robobass

I have two Toyota vehicles. One a 1990s truck and the other a 2006 Scion Xb. Both use 14mm hex head fasteners. Eric

Reply to
etpm

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