Update on machinist trainee

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I have a PC based DVR Geovision system with 16 cameras (I got to build a new hot-rod PC) and of course, we haven't had a problem since. 4 of the cameras are outside in vandal resistant heated housings and are VERY visible. As a bonus, I record every bit of people/production for a month at a time...and I get to see what the crazy cat does at night...he's an idiot!!!

I don't have a market for foreign stuff other than chip brushes and the Stainless Steel toothbrushes, neither of which is made in the US anymore.

We have a one-hour swing, 7 to 4:30

This is to some degree dependent on location, but I think the short answer is, yeah you are correct there in almost

Short of living in a junk car in the parking lot of your employer, it would be tough to hold down a job on that money. Have a family on it? Hah.

Jim

Not referring to just machinists, Jim. Workpeople in general. Do you feel a kid in high school, lacking skills of any kind, is worth over $7 hr to serve burgers? I don't.

Do you think a UPS driver is worth $28 hr? I don't.

These, amongst many others, are the people that are making it more expensive for all of us to live. They generally have no credentials that make them worth their pay-----and can easily be replaced with anyone off the street.

You want more pay----get an education, so you have something to sell. You don't want to go to school, or maybe you can't? Then learn a trade and get good at it. Make yourself into something that can't be replaced by anyone off the street. Only then are you worth more than minimum wage, which, in this state (Washington) is totally unreasonably high.

Harold

How about Delphi? Story on their bankruptcy stated average worker cost was $65 an hour.

Damn I want to work there. They just show up and eat bon-bons all day long. Great job, too bad their management screwed it up and they're going bankrupt.

I meant the job where you do nothing and get paid, but work for somebody who's still in business.

Harold says those things are out there.

Jim

That argument aside, a high school kid earning $7 an hour is being supported by parents.

In other words, the

no show up - no pay check - no eat & no place to sleep

connection isn't yet complete enough to sink in... it's more like ah, what's the big deal, can wait another week to buy that CD...

That's free market economics Harold. If they could pay less, they would.

Seems like UPS has decided that if they pay seven bucks an hour, they get the druggie crowd who shows up at work whenever they feel like it. Or if not, then they don't.

Short of imposing wage caps I don't think there's much you can do.

It doesn't matter what *you* personally think a living wage is. The free market does that for the employer. Pay less, and your business suffers because you either get the loyal idiots that some have complained about, or the geniuses who all seem to have some sort of wing down over one issue of another.

You bet UPS drivers are worth that much. But not because I say so.

Because UPS HAS to pay that much to run their business.

Jim

Harold, I do think 7 bucks an hour is reasonable to get paid for flipping burgers. At least in WA State. Living expenses are high. The people who are making this low wage are not to blame for the high cost of living. I can't see why they have to suffer first when it comes time to cut costs. And I don't know about your UPS drivers, but the ones that deliver my stuff are all in good shape because they have to deliver so many packages. And to top it off, they have all been nice folks who went out of their way to make sure I got my packages delivered when I wasn't here. 28 bucks doesn't seem that high to me. And when I ship UPS I think the prices are reasonable. I can't imagine ever paying someone who works hard only minimum wage. Frankly, I don't care if the person is un-skilled with an IQ of 50. If they bust their butt digging me a ditch while I crank handles then they deserve to be paid well. If they are a slacker, no matter how educated or smart, then maybe minimum wage is OK for them. And Harold, since I pay people like ditch diggers starting at $10.00/hr, I at least put my money where my mouth is. Eric R Snow E T Precision Machine

Worker *cost* is quite a bit higher than worker *pay*

I think probably that the International Brotherhood of Teamsters has something to do with it too.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:58:41 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom Gardner" quickly quoth:

That's where you screwed up IMHO. If you'd left them off until you caught the bastards, you'd have some satisfaction and possible recovery of some of the stolen items. Now you may never know. (Unless the idiots think they can beat the cameras, too.)

That could be an important item in an insurance claim against you.

Cats are in orbit, that's for sure.

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I worked like that for about 8 months.

My typical work day was to wake up at 9, get to work at 10:20, chat with coworkers, take a lunch break at noon, go back to work at 2 (I used to go home for lunch, go running etc, take a shower and maybe a nap), chat with coworkers, and go home at 4.

My boss told me to bill for regular 8 hour workdays. Who was I to object.

I am not kidding.

That was a consulting job for a company A that was doing a big multi-year project for another company B. B was paying A for every hour worked on the project. Company A hired me when the project was still ongoing, but they very soon realized that company B was going to terminate the project by the end of year. B was a very big company with very deep pockets and slow decision making process. A was a smaller company, a former spinoff from B. They had no incentive to terminate the project until officially notified. So they kept all of us "working" on this project.

Eventually, the project was officially terminated and consultants were informed that we were to be let go. So I found myself another, better paying job. In a couple of weeks A asked me to stay, but I decided not to. Too much insanity.

There are other members of this forum who still work at company A. Company A had many layoffs after I left, so I am glad that I did not stay.

I was extremely tired when I joined A (due to taking too many classes at school), so 8 months of this BS gave me some needed rest.

So... things like that happen, but not often.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 10:22:17 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Mike Berger quickly quoth:

Minimum wage never has been. That's why most people on it have roommates, housemates, or working partners. Or they live in people's garage lofts, mother-in-law cottages, shacks, cabins, etc.

As far as I know, it has been that way for all of my adult life. (I'm 52.)

BTW, isn't "living wage" the term thought up by the folks who brought us welfare (and all the other social programs which have never worked?) ;)

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On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:03:40 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Andy Asberry quickly quoth:

Hehehe. You don't expect them to lay open their actual costs for personnel to the public, do you?

"Average worker cost" = 90% @ $6.35/hr (aka "workers"), 1% @ $25/hr (aka "managers", and one CEO at whatever "golden parachute" rate makes up that last 9% of the booty.

----------------------------------------------------------------------- A PSYCHOLOGIST looks at everyone -else- ||

The youth of today are raised by parents who were the youth of yesterday.

I was talking with a customer and his wife one day. They asked if I needed any help. Their son wanted to change jobs. They went on and on about how hard a worker he was; how dependable; never late. I told them to have him come in for an interview. Mama's exact words, "I'll tell him tonight. He called in sick and went fishing today!"

My method to reduce Monday sickness. Pay day is Friday for the previous week. Checks are cut on Monday. If you work Monday, you can pick up your check. If not, it goes in the afternoon mail to be delivered Thursday or Friday.

At first, I thought it might only move the absences to Friday but it hasn't worked out that way.