Move to India? Learn how to manage those Indian groups from here?
Here are some pieces of anecdotal evidence that may brighten your day:
A manager friend of mine told me about a year ago that prices for Indian contract software help has gone up three- or four-fold in the last five years. Not only that, but nobody over their gives raises so the price increases are all going to people moving from one company to another, which means that you can't retain the people on one project for any length of time.
I've had to maintain Indian code and it _stinks_. I don't know how representative it was of the overall scene, but it had "Job shop" written all over it; it was obviously written to be thrown away, not maintained for the long run.
Executives in the electronics industry are complaining about the loss of control over quality and their supply chain that comes from outsourcing (duh).
I think all of this is going to cause a rebound away from India. I don't think things will _ever_ go back to the way they were, but I don't think all the jobs are going to disappear, either.
The problem is not specifically a global market of people willing to work for lower wages, it also relates to the fact that overhead on those wages is significantly lower. In the quest for short term profits, we haven't adjusted duties and other penalties on imported goods to match the costs the we impose on ourselves to work in the USA. Simple examples are social security, workman's comp, OSHA requirements, unemployment, and a minimum wage.
Most employeers will tell you off the cuff that a $ 10 per hour employee actually costs more than $ 15 to cover these costs. Although there are those who see an "every man for himself" state and want these costs to go away, I personally believe they are suitable choices for a society. We've been through times where you were a slave to a corporation due to no safety net, safety issues weren't addressed and workers were regurarly injured and just dumped, and senior citizens had nothing to fall back on.
Step one would be to INCREASE duties to specifically cover these society imposed costs relative to what is imposed in other countries. The playing field is not anywhere near level when in addition to labor being cheaper, you don't have to worry about safety, retirement, polluting, unemployment, and a host of other things. Tough beans if our exports are reduced. It's not about the short-run, it's about the long run. Eventually either the imports will reduce also and producing our own goods will take their place or the exporters in other countries will just bite the bullet and acept a more even playing field.
Step two would be a single payer health care system. Yea, the right end of the scale screams and yells about government control but it works just fine and is CHEAPER in every country that does it. I have yet to speak to anyone in a country with a single payer system that would give it up for the supposed "freedom" of the US health care system.
Greetings Emmo, I find you post to be somewhat ironic. I started the machinist trainee thread. I had to fire the trainee because of poor attendance. But I still want to train someone, maybe lots of someones, to be metalworkers. Since you are posting to a metalworking newsgroup why not use your talent to make something out of metal and sell it? Really. As a smart guy I'm sure if you look around you will find a product that is not being made. Could be welding on lawnmower decks. Or welding statues. Maybe custom iron fences and gates. Never mind about the custom iron work. That's why I bought that plasma cutter. The key though is manufacturing. Software is cheap to do anywhere in the world. Almost no expensive tooling. And practically no shipping cost. And even though everything is being made in China now it doesn't make econimic sense for tiny run jobs. Like a set of custom gates with the silhouette of the owner's poodle cut out of a sheet of steel and beaten with a hammer so that it looks like wrought iron. Make stuff that is too expensive to make one off in another area and shipped to the final user destination. ERS
Have you looked at the stuff coming from China lately? Relatively low cost stuff that is also heavy, the kind of thing you would expect would be cheaper to make here than to ship here from China.
I just bought a home gym setup (Weider 4250) on sale for $299 (regular $399). Shipping weight is listed as 239# and it ships in three boxes. So for about $1.25 per pound this thing was cut, welded, painted, packaged, shipped and then had retail processing and markup. How the hell can a US manufacturer compete with that?
On a related note, the Weider 4250 is quite a value if you have the room for it. I know most of these things end up collecting dust in a basement or garage, but I'm in the unique position of working from home full time so I get a lot of opportunities to spend a few minutes exercising, which I need since I'm otherwise sitting in front of a computer all day.
Thanx, that is exactly what I am trying to do. To get unstuck, I have just finished a year and a half of welding classes at the local community college. I have a full complement of TIG, MIG, & O/A welding equipment, along with a plasma cutter, horizontal bandsaw, blast cabinet, and all the grinders, clamps, and tools I need. Starting on 12/1, I am renting space in a metalworking shop run by a successful young blacksmith/fabricator who has promised me his extra work. As part of the deal I get to use his iron worker, and we have already agreed to build a paint booth out behind the shop.
I have already made some gates for money, some for fun, and I just finished a job making four sidewalk seating/table units for a restaurant downtown. I am making furniture for sale in a local store, and I keep bidding all the work I can find. But this work is pretty thin, right now anyway.
I see two alternatives from here: First, I am applying to the Univ of Tx Masters of Fine Arts program in metal sculpture, (before I went to business school I went to art school (Museum School in Boston)and have a BFA). This would give me the credential to teach, which I would like to do. But they only admit three grad students a year, so I can't plan on that.
The other alternative is light manufacturing, as you have suggested. Recently, Leigh (catruckman) posted a message here about a trailer hitch business that a friend of his was selling on eBay. I tried to buy it, but was outbid in the last second by $100. I have looked at buying 3 other metal manufacturing opportunities, (wind chimes, outdoor lighting, motorcycle accessories), and eventually, I hope to find the right one, or think of it myself. After Burning Man, I thought about making stilts...
FWIW, I continue to make metal art as well. I recently was awarded an honorable mention at a show, and I am trying to get a show in a gallery/coffee shop nearby. But this is not practical as a way to earn a living, as much as I enjoy it. But I have been making art all my life and always will.
I wish you were in Austin, as I would sign up to be your next trainee, (and I promise I would show up!). But in any case, I am very open to any ideas, suggestions, or opportunities to buy or set up a small metal manufacturing effort. I deeply appreciate your response...
It wasn't to be for me, especially when self employed. I handled a lot of defense work, and was paid by check from major corporations. I handled no cash, so hiding money certainly wasn't an option, even if I was so inclined. Unless I was missing something, there was no way to avoid accounting for my income. Could be I could have gotten creative and withdrawn funds in any way but income. Dunno. All that does is send up the red flag that you're trying to avoid paying your fair share.
I bitched and moaned about SS for years, but now that I'm drawing a little of it back, the pain has subsided. I can only hope that for those that have contributed that there will still be something available. None of us should get ripped off by a system that was doomed to failure from day one. To me, it appears to be nothing more than a pyramid scheme. A tool used by certain politicians to buy votes at one point in time.
. A tool used by certain politicians to buy votes at one point in time.
Harold, were you a sole proprietorship or corporation? As a corporation, you could have held all your business assets as personal property and then rented them to the corporation. Rent income is not subject to social security taxes.
and herein lies the tale.... For at least the last 50 years the American public education systems have been geared to producing an organizational man that will be 'productive' [only] in large organizations with no effort [and in some cases discouragment] to suggest self-employment. For people that like order, stability and continuity [like politicians and educators] the self-employed are a cramp ITA because they are always trying something new and ask too many questions, such as 'what's in it for me."
Another result of deliberately opaque pricing in the "brave new world order free market."
Transportation costs are far higher that they appear based on public data such as the cost per barrel of oil. These costs are subsidized through special tax exemptions, deductions and exchange rate manipulations, which the the average citizen must pay for over time. Thus the true cost of imported goods is concealed.
Sole proprietorship was the route I chose. Considering it was many years ago, I don't recall my rationale, but I think it was the simplest way for me. I certainly could have been wrong----- I'm as bad at accounting as I am at making music----my only talent has always been running machines. Doesn't matter much now that I'm retired and getting that monthly check. Still, and I know some guys are going to find it hard to believe, I don't feel real good about collecting the money. I just can't shake that feeling of charity received, which is not something that I've ever done. As I stated, with great pride, I've always earned my way in life, and, lacking an education, by hard work.
You know, Harold, I've always despised paying into Social Security, because I've long realized what a bad deal it is, but I've never felt one shred of negativity toward a guy such as yourself, who's paid into it all his life. You were forced into a pact with your government, willing or not, and now I think you should spend that money with a joyous heart while proclaiming "What a great country this is!"
except in comparison to most corporate defined benefit pension plans.... under worst case scenerios SS will have the ability to pay 70% of what they owe in 50 years, which is a lot better than nothing.
Well, Unc, I've had my own plan since 1987. It's called saving and investing. If I take my SS statement and extrapolate it at the same rate that my own plan has grown, I would *own* 3 times as much money as I have paid in to SS. That's how bad their plan is. Taking care of yourself beats SS and the pension plans hands down in my book.
It certainly is. You'll never know how good it feels to know that the money shows up on the third Wednesday of each month, insuring we can pay our few bills and have food to eat. We're not broke, in fact far from it, but the slightest of things could upset our cart. Having worked damned hard in my life, and followed prescribed rules and regulations, even when I didn't want to, and in spite of my queasy stomach each time I get paid, I'm still damned grateful for the money.
========================================================== Congratulations on successful financial planning and implementation. I hope that you have your investments diversified and in "safe havens."
In many cases, when evaluating social security as an investment the insurance component is overlooked. Social Security provides some minimal coverage for your dependents while the typical savings and investment plans do not. When this feature is considered, for example by factoring in the premium cost of compariable insurance, the total return on social Security looks much better.
An additional problem is the increasing frequency of highly sophisticated scams. For example, when one of the last big S&L collapses occurred, many people lost their entire investments because they had shifted into the S&Ls C.D.s paying 1/2 point more interest. It was only after the 'ship hit the sand' these investors learned that what they bought were not 'Certificates of Deposit' covered by the FDIC, but 'Charlie's Derivatives" named in honor of the Ray Charles song "Born to lose" with no backing or guarantee of any kind. [I made the Ray Charles part up.]
I have had my 401k money invested in mutual funds that I thought were at least honest, although they did have slightly low returns. It was only much later that I learned these funds were engaging in "late-trading" with preferred customers, thereby skimming my profits. When I "cashed out," the plans took an extended period of time for "signature verification," which cost me almost a 1,000$ because of a fall in the share values between the time I started the redemption process and got my money. While I can't prove it, I am sure that if the market had gone up, I would have gotten the share prices for the exact second I started the redemption process. Someone is making money on a sure thing.
Stories like this one make it abundantly clear why a) the financial world was slather at the mouth to have social security privatized, and b) why that plan crashed and burned as rapidly as it did, in spite of all the push by the folks hired to see it implimented.
That's why it needs to be something with a small enough demand that it's not worthwhile to make in China and ship over here. Like custom gates. I don't know where the point of break-even is for shipping from China is, but I think it's relatively small. That's why a small local demand will work only if it is small enough. But I'm sure that a niche can be found. And catering to those with the money is the way to go. I make a product that I ship all over the USA. Maybe $5000.00 per year total sales. All the materials that go into this product are produced in the USA. But material prices are going up because oil is going up. And even though the plastic is produced in the USA the oil it's made from could come from anywhere. I could lower prices if I bought materials from overseas but I want to keep jobs here. If a cheaper copy comes out from China I will probably lose some business. But not much. The people who will buy the cheap Chinese product wouldn't buy my more expensive product anyway. So I don't try to compete with China. I just try to make things that China isn't interested in. ERS
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.