Update on machinist trainee

A hint...some jobs are NOT worth the cost of living. They are entry level jobs. They are perfect for part timers, those with other incomes or only wishing to make a few bucks on the side. There is no intent to "exploit the masses", but its a fact of life..that working at a drive up window is not a career you can raise a family on. And you are a moron if you try. Nor will the wage of that particular job ever be enough to raise a family on.

Door greeter at Walmart..oh yes indeed..now there is a career you can depend on to allow you to send your kids to college. Not even tips.

The only game being played, is that of the Socialists who think/trumpet that all jobs should provide a living wage.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

What Gunner said!

It's absurd to assume that just because you're willing to work that you deserve respectable pay. What message is that sending society? Show up with no qualifications and the world will take care of you? You want respectable pay, get an education, or learn a trade. Pull yourself up off the bottom, so you have value.

How about sending this message instead: Don't prepare yourself to make a living, and you'll end up living under a bridge somewhere, and no one gives a damn if you do. Unearned money should never be made available to those that *won't* do for themselves----never.

Harold

That must be related to overhead involved in dealing with unions, I don't know because I've never had to deal with unions. I know my own experience, including owning my own network engineering and software dev firm for 12+ years, our burden rates were about 30% and that included a full benefits package (vac, sick leave, insurance), 401K match, employers share of FICA, unemployment cost and loss of productivity for the few slackers we occasionally ended up with.

I suppose if I divided all of my other overhead per employee it would be closer to 60%.

The consulting firms and supply chain/distribution firms I've worked for in the past 8 years all ran with about a 30% burden rate as well.

It's interesting that your experience is so different.

Tillman

This reminds me of an article I read about Walmart vs. Costco. Walmart pays low wages. Period. As a result employees have low loyalty and a high turnover rate and Walmart spends a ton of money replacing them. OTOH, Costco will give their employees raises over time, so thier turnover rate is far lower. In the end it works out about even and per employee both spend roughly the same amount--just in different areas. But Walmart gets stuck with a bunch of rookies all the time. Could be that UPS has chosen the Costco model with their drivers. The drivers certainly have some valuable skills, such as knowledge of the area's roads, which would take time to replace. Beyond that, IIRC UPS drivers are hired internally, so an employee that becomes a driver has already demonstrated the ability to show up to work reliably.

Yeah, I already asked her. ERS

Stainless toothbrushes, eh?

Well, what you can do is change the packaging. First you need a nice big waving US flag for the background, then in BIG letters OHIO BRUSH, perhaps with an outline of the Buckeye state. Then you need a photo of a satisfied-looking white guy holding the product. The markings "made in China" should be on the back and in the legal minimum point size. I know some guys in Ukraine who can put the graphics together (probably using pirated Adobe software). If you bristle (hahah) at the idea, just think you'll probably be getting the finished product at the same price as the raw materials, no more hassles with production workers, and you'll be able to buy a shiny new Lexus with the improved bottom line.

You could also try to change the system, but you know d*** well we'll both be long dead before that happens.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Ah, no.

Let's just say that my experience is derived from a lifetime working in R&D, and the rule that employee's cost is about twice what they get paid is based on decidedly NON-union companies.

One of them being one of the most famous non-union companies. They have a 'one breath' rule. If you are a manager, you are allowed to take ONE breath before picking up the phone and calling your manager, if you ever hear anyone you manage talking about unionizing.

Jim

I'd also wonder where with that lifetime we're talking about. Employee overhead in the 70's and 80's might have been considerably lower than present, given the increases in health care and OSHA compliance. Assuming, of course, that the employer pays most of the increases and is diligent about following OSHA regulations.

Yes, but you have the opportunity to gather with the rest of the staff a half hour before opening time for a little inspirational pep talk, then participate in the awe inspiring WALLMART YELL! Gerry :-)} London, Canada

My experience is much more recent, mostly from the mid-90's through the present. The company I'm with now has a burden rate of 30%, and they have very good benefits (after 6 mos. of employment, the employee's health insurance cost is $30/month single, $60/month family).

This company is in the warehouse/distribution logistics industry. Prior to here I was with a major technology and professional services consulting firm and the cost models I built for managed service practices used a 31% burden rate. In the Pharmaceutical sector, where I built a lot of managed resource models for companies like J&J, Wyeth Ayerst, and Aventis (late 90's), the burden rates ranged between 29% and 34%.

Tillman

Really? I work for a large bank for a long time had my pay direct deposited to my account at a different bank. When I setup the direct deposit I don't recall any limitations as to the institutions it could be direct deposited to, even credit unions.

Pete C.

The post I replied to referenced an employer with a two strikes and you're out rule, which is a far cry from firing the chronically tardy.

Pete C.

Acknowledged and agreed that 2 strikes and your out probably cost the employer more in loss production from disgruntled employees with issues they NEEDED to take care of and couldn't for fear of losing their job.!

Tillman

But Harold...it might hurt their self esteem if they actually have to know something or to work hard at becoming skilled at some trade that does pay a living wage.

Personally..I think if anyone wants to be a brain surgeon, and can afford that nifty set of scrubs...they should go for the gusto.

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner

Chuckle! Yeah, that would be stretching things, wouldn't it. And we wonder what's wrong with society!

What the hell became of personal pride?

H

Severely injurred by enslavement through socialist entitlement programs, injurred, but not dead.

Tillman

Ahhhh... work hard, live well? Just a thought ;-)

No offense, but I think it's time to come off of your condescending high horse.

Hope this helps.

Electron

Most folks that think they are worth unearned money feel the same way. You one of them?

There's nothing condescending about my attitude ----- in fact, it's one that more should assume. We're living in a society that hasn't a clue about

*value*. You don't think so? Explain to me in terms that I can understand why it is that virtually all of our industries have left for greener pastures. You can debate all day long the concept that they are greedy, but the truth is if we want to have jobs in this country, we must compete in a world market. Demanding more pay when your employer is giving serious consideration to sending his orders for widgets to a different country, where he can obtain them without putting up with whining employees that see themselves as hard put upon because the boss expects them to actually show up and be productive is a good way to accelerate the process, and who can blame them?

I can't speak for you, but when I was employed (I worked for myself for years, because I wasn't pleased with the inequities of employers) I worked my ass off for the boss. He got everything from me that he bargained for. I showed up, did my day's work, and there was no concern about anything else but that. Expecting that today appears to be unreasonable. I don't like people that think they can ride free on society. Maybe you haven't figured it out yet-------but it's true----there is no free lunch.

Harold

Ah, I think Ed has already done that. The reason is that the labor costs in china are 1/20th that of the US. Basically it's a free market, and companies want to take advantage of that

1/20th number. This is why GM is now building all of its engines in china.

The only way that american workers are going to learn a lesson about "value" is by having all their wages divided by 20. What this means is that your retirement and SS benefits are now likewise divided by 20. Once that happens, then you too will appreciate "value."

Harold, you keep insisting that something needs to be done to teach workers a lesson - or at least that's what it sounds like. Vindictive or not, I cannot seem exactly what kind of even or law will do this. Short of writing letters to all the US companies, the gist of which would be "you're paying folks too much," what else could you do?

Jim