Ebay item 300002193818

Actually they were made using a thread cutting lathe that had a precisely made chain instead of a lead screw, I've actually seen such a machine in use. It would be interesting to know how some of the other chicken and egg situations were solved though, any have any links ?

I'm sorry but joining a chopped off bit of the original to a new bit is a botch to me and would be a last resort in my book, others may have different standards 8-).

Actually I did buy several bits from Ebay, a vertical slide and vice for example, but didn't want to wait until a lead screw came up so paid the extra to get going. Please don't take offence, your advice is appreciated.

Unfortunately I do have to earn a living so I count my free time as a precious comodity and may well make different judgements to others, roll on retirement 8-)

Maybe the word 'everything' was a bit strong, but most things certainly. Take the latest power tools, I bough a B&D hammer drill and it just burnt out with normal use, on the other hand I have a very old B&D drill in a metal case that is still going strong. Is the latest Chinese lathe any more accurate than my 30 year old Boxford with an unused P&B chuck?, I doubt it. Of course I'm comparing with my farther's day, not my grand father's.

What has changed is that you can get engineering stuff from China, Poland etc that are of adequate quality yet a fraction of the cost they were a few years ago.

Greg

No "6 year consumer warranty in the sale of goods act" exists.

The 6 years is just the time limit within which you must bring legal action, nothing more, nothing less. Similarly the often quoted "now standard 2 years guarantee because of the EU" doesn't exist either.

If it can be reasonable expected that the goods should last for x period of time, where x can theoretically be ANYTHING from 1 millisecond to hundreds of years, then the supplier must repair or replace free of charge during that time regardless of any warranty/guarantee supplied as standard, or (foolishly) taken out at extra cost.

Basically you buy consumer goods and expect them to last x number of years, they ten fail before that period has elapsed and a judge agrees that your expectations were not unreasonable then the supplier of those goods (not the manufacturer) *has* to remedy that situation.

Semantics:) Point conceded, it was badly worded. The thrust of what I was getting at is valid though, in that for 6 years after purchase the seller is responsible for the cost of repair, replacement (or award of equivalent costs) for an item that had an inherent fault at the time of purchase. Which includes design faults or material/manufacturing faults, but only applies if you are a consumer. Business purchasers luck out. Sometimes it may take legal action to get this, but the 6 years is the period in which the consumer has a right to the above, and not just a time limit to take action. Not my interpretation, thats direct from the DTI.

Peter

Greg wrote::

The major souce of error with any leadscrew fitted to our workshop lathes is how it is located on the machine, given that it must turn and therefore have clearance it inevitably has some longitudinal movement. This is ampified by temperature change as the bed and leadscrew expand/contract at different rates. Many good quality lathes have two piece leadscrews with shear pins to protect against overrun. There is no reason whatsoever that this two piece technique if properly carried out is not every bit as good as a single piece leadscrew.

Of course you will make different judgements to others we all have our own interests and priorities. I may have misunderstood your comments but I certainly read them as derogatory to anyone who would spend their time fixing lathes. I spent my working life in the aerospace industry and I can tell you that all of our very best guys were in the major repair areas. New production and assembly was considered a little less demanding. I for one have a lot of respect for someone who can take a worn or damaged piece of precision engineering and return it to service.

Again Greg, you might be surprised by the real world. A number of years ago I was given (well almost) an old (1983) Taiwanese lathe that had certainly seen some hard days. The lads in the metrology lab (who had a good sense of humour) decided to have a laugh at my expense. They offered to give it the once over and produce a "correction chart" so that I could "work to the nearest 10 thou". After giving it a thorough going over the figures for the basic slideways that came off the CMM were astounding. The funny thing was that when the results were compared with it's own production test report they bore no resemblance at all, it was as if the figures had been filled in entirely randomly. We couldn't understand why when the machine was suprisingly good anyway.

I think you need to look at where the really accurate machine tools come from these days, I'm sorry to say that it isn't Halifax and hasn't been for many many years. The Swiss, Eastern Europe and the Far East all have major industries servicing this end of the market. If you really dig you might also find out that many well respected names actually have production facilities in China, for some reason they don't seem to like admitting it though.

Best regards

Keith

Actually the suggested botch was refering to the cross slide lead screw, which as Boxford owners will know is already a bit long and thin and close fitting with the feed gear an integral part, so joining it in the middle would not be a good idea.

I design generator controls that are used in every corner of the world, in some places their idea of a battery charger is two wires clipped onto the overhead lines and a diode!, so please don't tell me I don't know about the real world 8-)

Greg

I am a boxford owner and the principle is similar.

I suppose I could say here - we were talking machine tools. Your horror stories are not unique, I've seen a replacement piston created with a file and a larger scrap version held between the feet. I wonder who the real engineers are? Your comment suggested that the Chinese, eastern Europe etc produced "adequate" machinery, I merely pointed out they were much more capable than that.

Actually Greg, I also have better things to do with my time than argue semantics with you. I actually come on this forum to learn and that I do daily from some very helpful people. I have enjoyed our discussion but I won't be continuing with it.

Best regards

Keith

Cool it Kermit - take a chill pill.

Most respondants of this Newsgroup are here as they enjoy engineering either as a hobby or as a living. There really is no reason to either ruffle feathers or have ruffled feathers. Relax a bit, unwind and ENJOY the helpful advice freely given by the several long term contributors and stop trying to score points.

AWEM

Oh dear we are off again.

Have you ever thought about a job as PR to two Jags ? I think he could do with a bit of support.

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-

I didn't say they were, just countered the inference that I was out of touch.

I wasn't aware that we were arguing semantics, but there we are.

Greg

Hmm, that's a bit rich...

Greg

In my profession we both buy from and sell to China so I well know that they can and will produce what ever the customer wants, from absolute crap to high quality, though the latter is harder to find reliably I can tell you. From what I've seen of the machine tools targeted at the model engineer they think we will pay for 'adequate' so that's what they supply, and very good at it they are too hence their dominance.

Greg

Yes here we go again, it's ok for an inference to be made against a newcomer to this group but how dare he defend himself, doesn't he know who this group belongs to...

Greg

Henceforth thou will now be named Teflon Greg

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-

Well you do have a tendency to be perhaps a little bit obstreperous:)

I think this NG tends to adopt a far more relaxed approach (except where Gareth is concerned) then the '"nobody else but me can be right" attitude so often practiced on forums across the Pond, and is much the better for it. Its one of the few places where I can happily admit my inadequacy in certain areas or make a ill-thought out comment without scorn being heaped upon me, and receive good advice in return. As Andrew said, sit back, relax, and enjoy the place a little more.

Peter

I dunno Greg, I thought you came off a bit self righteous and a bit snotty when you were referring to not wanting to "bodge" stuff by doing as was suggested.

I have seen more than a few professionally done repairs done in exactly the manner described, and good workmanship speaks for itself. A fast, effective, and inexpensive repair that can be done in short order, and will last as long as a new complete part can really not be a bodge, as I see it.

Cheers Trevor Jones

I don't really want to do this yet, but I have an ML7 that I will be selling soon. I don't need it any more since I have my late father's long bed ML7B nearly fully commissioned.

The lathe was (IIRC) originally of about mid 1951 vintage. It is short bed, no gearbox. It is on a Myford stand, with an IMO Jaguar Cub invertor and 3/4hp motor (c/o, John.S). Within the last four years, the bed has been reground, it still shows some abuse from a past life, but that's just oil pockets now. It has had a new long cross slide and re-settable micrometer dials, new bearings throughout (although the mandrel is still white metal/soft rather than bronze/hardened), new countershaft and pulley, new tailstock and apron handwheels, new leadscrew handwheel (although this is an RDG clone... you can have the original as well).

There is a full set of changewheels plus some extra in the 80-100-127T range, but minus the 38T gear (vital for turning 19tpi=1/4bsp). There is a good Burnerd 3jaw (or a crap one if you want :-). A reasonable Burnerd 4 jaw, drill chuck, a selection of centres, dogs, a catch plate, a set of a dozen Myford HSS tools and holder. Probably a swiveling vertical slide (older 1 bolt pattern). Plus what ever else I find that I have two of.

The reason I don't really want to let it go yet is that It really needs a new/repaired topslide, there has been a crash and a chuck ate a bit out of the topslide, plus the topslide dovetails were rather worn. I had re-machined the dovetails, but had not made thicker gibs to account for the total of 40 thou removed. I was intending to get a new topslide and toplslide base before flogging it.

In its current condition and with the vertical slide I would expect to get £600 for it (about what I've spent on new bits without the original cost of the lathe). If you are that desperate, I'll take some photos, or you can come and have a gander. Otherwise, wait another couple of months and it'll be on and ebay, probably with the topslide repaired and re-scraped and with a new topslide base manufactured to take up the wear rather than over-thick gibs.

If you're extremely desperate but not quite sure whether to go down the Myford or C6 route, you could probably borrow it for long enough to make up your mind. If you didn't want it, we'd just tell the ebay punters that it was at your house, not mine :-)

Mark Rand (brutally honest) RTFM

The mistake is buying the top of the range ones. I had an Indesit washer dryer many years ago - cheapest one on the market at the time & worked very well for ~10 years. Was still working fine when we got rid of it.

Regards, Tony

It was not intentional, this is a faceless medium so it's always easy to infer something that isn't there unfortunately.

And can't someone else see it differently in one specific instance and be equally entitled to his view?, not here it seems, sadly we're now down to childish name calling 8-(. I have to say that this group is not at all welcoming to newcomers if they have their own mind and don't bow and scrape to the old guard. And god forbid that someone has some professional expertise and offers help to others if it contradicts someone's mistaken understanding in that area... It's a real shame because there is obviously a lot of experience here to share.

Greg

Hmm, how childish.

Greg