Machine Long Term Storage

just spray everything with back to black silicone spray ..

join the wales innovators network WIN

casually let slip that you have a full machine shop .

the guys there will give you plenty to do .

all the best.markj

Dear Troubled of Wales

Sadly, I know those symptoms only too well. The cure is sunshine...that's it, just sunshine. You'll look back and smile the moment the first spring lamb craps on your lawn.

Meanwhile...use a 'sticky' oil, something like the stuff Myford sells as 'way oil'...It's worked for me in similar circumstances. Needless to say, it's for the lathe, not for slathering on yourself. WD 40 and similar light fraction products just evaporate...and spend some money - I'm sure I have stuff I could sell you. You're bound to feel better after that..I'm sure I will.

Meanwhile..chin up, and keep the faith. It's your turn to buy the buns at Warwick. --

Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!"

I am sorry about your bout of depresion, I would cover the protected (greaseed) machines with no rust paper and poly sheeting made up into inverted bags and finally in the bottom of each bag I would install a tiny light bulb of say 10 watts to provide in little heat and so keep the damp away. Peter

This time of year I'm just about suicidal, gagging for some real sunlight as well, even tried a sun-lamp at one time, but it's just not the same. Id rather hibernate and wait for the longer days.

Ref the machines, for real long-term storage, the best gunge I've used is Ensis fluid?oil? can't remember exactly. A shell product, I expect others make something similar. I presume it's a solvented oil of some sort, when it dries it leaves a fairly stiff waxy coating which lasts very well. You can remove it easily with paraffin, white spirit etc when you want to re-commission the machines. A plastic sheet over the top keeps the dust off and stops the wax from becomming grinding paste.

Rgds Richard

I can't add anything to everyone else's advice, but I have just come back from a two hour walk along the beach wearing a tee shirt and the sunshine today is amazing :)

tension,

expect

lasts

Shell Ensis is good, but a cautionary tale. I've just taken my entire (26 tons) workshop out of storage where it has been for one year in a waterproof barn with good ventilation. I painted everything with Shell Ensis liberally as they arrived at the storage place - went over everything twice, then sheeted over to keep the dust off. Problem is that although I thought I had been thorough, obviously I wasn't thorough enough as it's amazing what I've missed. Mainly cosmetic but very annoying. Nothing a few days clean up won't erradicate but it shouldn't be necessary. I even missed one entire machine - my Mikron gear hobber, so it now has a light rusting eveywhere - argh!

There were two problems: The mover wasn't happy carrying pre-coated machines as obviously they are very slippery to lash down, so it had to be done in a bit of a rush as they were unloaded. Secondly I couldn't find a reliable way of spraying the Ensis so had to brush it. The normal hand sprayers clogged up and O rings were affected by the solvent. Power sprayer out of the question as they were packed!

In summary, if the Ensis covered it thickly it was protected.

AWEM

I assume ensis is like waxoyl? there hand sprayer works ok. presumably you could aslo use waxoyl for machine covering. Dave

pre-coated

I don't think it's the same formulation. The waxoyl sprayer only works in my experiance if you can warm the waxoyl first.

AWEM

In article , dave sanderson writes

Not familiar with Waxoyl, but from the name it sounds as if it dries to leave a wax coat. Ensis is not quite like this in my experience; it leaves a thin film of oil which AIUI contains chemical rust inhibitors. For use in an inside workshop, I find a thin coat is all that is required; in fact, a wipe with an impregnated rag does the job of preventing the dreaded fingerprint stains on MS (and also the oily fingers you get from the rag helps matters).

As Andrew says, it doesn't do much for the bits you miss though. A suitable piece of VPI paper may help there, provided the item is in an enclosed space (box or bag).

David

In article , jontom snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com writes

Keith,

I know what you mean about motivation. I have had several periods where I have lost enthusiasm and hardly used the workshop for months. Then, usually, some other need arises which gets me back in there, and all of a sudden I'm buzzing with things to make and do, and poring over catalogues again. What goes around comes around, as they say. I think if you get rid of all your laboriously acquired stuff you may come to regret it.

As to storage, I think it depends on the conditions in your workshop. If it is part of the house, and maintained at a reasonable temperature and low humidity, I don't think you need to do anything other than an occasional wipe over with an oily rag and a couple of minutes running the machines (which may just generate a spark of interest). Most machinery IMO seems happier if used occasionally.

For machinery in an outhouse or unheated garage, this will need more care, in line with the suggestions made by others (and myself) elsewhere. A little background heating (maybe from one of the wall panel heaters such as sold by Machine Mart) would help.

For motivation, it is true that a change of direction often helps, but some outside job, i.e. helping someone else, can help more. I had a period of low enthusiasm a few years ago, and was lifted out of it in large part by helping a friend with a research project in return for some shares in his company. As others have suggested, getting involved in REMAP might work for you.

Whatever the route, I hope you manage to get re-inspired and stick with it!

David

involved

Well motivation comes in odd sizes! Since my lathe returned from storage I've had little time to use it for it's intended purpose making hobby things, but so far it's made:

- a gender changer for a co-ax socket so the grand children could watch the telly over Christmas

- a special odd sized pin so I could use a non standard bucket on my JCB

- a bearing housing to repair the flail mower and today a special sealing washer for an outside tap to double q/d adaptor thingy turned out of blue water pipe!

So even if you never make another model (and I rarely have!) the lathe is still an essential bit of kit - every house should have one

AWEM

And to you and yours, Keith.

My original feeling was "Ensis" fluid, IMHO your problem is what is made for. As Andrew says if you do not cover an area then it will not help, a VPI pot or paper is maybe the second option, though the item being stored would need covering to ensure that the protection did not dissiapate. VPI paper is not badly priced if you buy a big enough roll. VPI pots are IMHO a bit pricey.

As others have said "Sunshine" and maybe some better news on the financial front will probably make the difference.

I feel a bit the same as you. I have projects but cannot get of my "thin" a** to do them. A bl**dy cold garage workshop that is full of junk does not help. Maybe now is the time to get rid of not tools, machines and material but JUNK that you have had since time imoral ;-). Clear some space to help clear your head!

Thinking about it I WILL do the same! That cobblers last that has been under the bench for yonks HAS TO GO. The box of NEW DIN 41612 connectors HAS TO GO! The huge tub of reels of 7/.02 wire in a variety of colours HAS TO GO!

They say if you have not touched something for 6 months you do not need it. So go into the shop, touch your machines and tools and protect them. Bin the junk and re-think it all in 5 months when the sun may be shining. (Then touch all of your machines and tools again to ensure that you have a further 6 months grace!).

Stay with it Keith, your comments on the group have been very helpful to me. The collet chuck you sent me the drawings for has been a boon, a great bit of kit.

Hang in there.

Best Regards

Richard

Sunshine, of course, cheaply available in eg Spain just now - *and* central heating in the workshop :) , but addressing a not-really-larger question...

Why do we have a workshop? In order simply to have a workshop, in order to make models, in order to use it to increase our ability to be able to make things in general, or for some other reason?

(the moonlight-on-vermont guitar just kicked in, extra loud... "gimme that ol' time religion" .. hmmm - sax, anyone? I expect the neighbours might be annoyed just a bit, later :)

More than a few of us have a workshop just for it's own sake almost, spending our time tweaking the machines and not producing much in the way of output. That's fine of course, though there isn't a concourse prize for the best workshop afaik - perhaps there should be? - though as workshops tend hard to be geographically static it might be difficult to administer and judge such a prize.

Some of us have a workshop in order to make models, or watches, or clocks, or whatever, and that is entirely fine and suitable for them, but I can easily imagine people thinking "I've got a workshop now, and I don't really want to make a(nother) steam engine - what good is it to me"

Those who have a workshop in order to increase, in general, their capacity to do the things they want to do have the easiest time, of course.

But in a way, that's why we all have workshops...

-- Peter Fairbrother

Sunshine, of course, cheaply available in eg Spain just now - *and* central heating in the workshop :) , but addressing a not-really-larger question...

Why do we have a workshop? In order simply to have a workshop, in order to make models, in order to use it to increase our ability to be able to make things in general, or for some other reason?

(the moonlight-on-vermont guitar just kicked in, extra loud... "gimme that ol' time religion" .. hmmm - sax, anyone? I expect the neighbours might be annoyed just a bit, later :)

More than a few of us have a workshop just for it's own sake almost, spending our time tweaking the machines and not producing much in the way of output. That's fine of course, though there isn't a concourse prize for the best workshop afaik - perhaps there should be? - though as workshops tend hard to be geographically static it might be difficult to administer and judge such a prize.

Some of us have a workshop in order to make models, or watches, or clocks, or whatever, and that is entirely fine and suitable for them, but I can easily imagine people thinking "I've got a workshop now, and I don't really want to make a(nother) steam engine - what good is it to me"

Those who have a workshop in order to increase, in general, their capacity to do the things they want to do have the easiest time, of course.

But in a way, that's why we all have workshops...

-- Peter Fairbrother

Sometimes i look at stuff and think why the hell I bought it. Then I get rid of it. When I look at it and say that it is useful and I love it, I keep it, no matter how long I didn't use it.

But cleaning the shop is coupled to cleaning your head. That gives room for new ideas and new momentum. In both sheds. :-)

'nuff, Nick

Many thanks to aleveryone who provided comment on both aspects of my question, many insightful observations that have caused me a good deal of reflection, most of it positive I=92m pleased to say.

For the practical aspect I have to admit that many years ago when storing aircraft outside we had some trouble with the =93Ensis=94 type product; as Andrew has identified it was fine where coverage was total but appeared to almost concentrate problems if any small areas were missed. On one occasion when opening up an area, we found a good deal of condensation on top of the waxy coating so any missed area was at a much increased risk. Not sure if we were using exactly the same protective as it was over 35 years ago when I was much more interested in racing cars and girls =96 yes in that order. As my machines are in an attached garage with the central heating boiler which provides a little background I suspect the =93way oil=94 will do the job with some silicon spray for the painted areas. Despite reading it many times I had forgotten the trick of putting a small bulb in the cabinet so will do that with the larger machines, thanks again.

On the motivation issue, I was surprised that my experience appears far from unusual so may not be terminal as I had feared. Peter offers very good comment on the reasons for creating a workshop, I guess as an =93engineer=94 (self appointed as my old instructor would say when marking my work) I always wanted a workshop and in reality it has taken many years to get the kit I felt I needed =96 now I have it what to do with it?

To be really honest some of the observations made by Richard, David, Andrew and of course Chris were very near the =93bull=94 and thus particularly helpful. Richard's point about untidy areas full of junk were particularly apt and a clean up of workshop and mind together with getting out to some groups to meet "people" will be the starting point I think. I have one minor issue though, the =93sunshine=94 treatment doesn=92t appear to work in Wales =96 we had nearly a whole morning of clear blue sky and bright sunshine yesterday but wandering about outside in shorts and tee-shirt merely turned bits of me blue/purple (is that the correct heat treatment stage?) and I was afraid things might start to drop off. Perhaps I need to refine the technique a little :-)

Anyway many thanks to all who took the trouble to advise I am most grateful, thank you.

Best regards

Keith

Hi Chris, I "know" you have stuff that I would very much like to buy but are you absolutely sure spending my last few sheckles would make both of us feel better? Please see my other post re your "sunshine" fix as Welsh brand doesn't appear effective??

Certainly hadn't forgotton Chris and will hold you to whichever show is most convienient for you. I look forward to it and can confirm the piggy bank is almost full and so should be able to afford a bun EACH, now that can't be bad can it?

Best regards

Keith

Hi Keith

I'll come back to you in the public forum in a while. I just wanted to say, privately, don't be tempted and get too carried away with public 'euphoria' over my lovely workshop etc..You haven't, but I'm obviously a little nervous least our fun attracts unwelcome attention. I wouldn't be hard to find. :)

Best regards --

Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!"

(snip)

Although I've mentioned it at least once over the years, there's a trick worth repeating for the benefit of newcomers to our indulgence - the piano heater. Piano heaters are metal tubes about three feet long and an inch diameter, which contain a 240v heating element, mine's rated at 15 watts, I think. Although primarily designed to keep pianos damp free, they're the perfect accessory for protecting machine tools from condensation and rust. The heat is better dispersed than from the point source of a bulb and can be safely left switched on for extended periods beneath an old blanket covering the machine. I see from Google that a 15 watt heater currently costs about £35 - money well spent, I suggest.

No,no,no! (Pf ft -that a professional engineer can get things SO wrong!) That's quite the wrong approach - it's not you who needs the sunshine, it's your 'significant other' Take the wife to Benidorm for a week via Ryanair, with the tacit understanding that you can buy more stuff for the workshop when you return. Every tourist kiosk you will find in Spain has rose-coloured spectacles - buy wholesale. Works for me :)

--

Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!"