Rust prevention in the workshop

I think that you're a bit obsessed by something or other.

The purpose of this thread is to alert subscribers to the NG of the availability of dehumidifers in Homebase.

I don't think that your obsession below is contributing in any way to the thread - I am not in cognitive dissonance with anything that I have posted on the matter = my explanations suit me and, I guess, are good enough for other model engineers.

Pedantic nit-picking such as you adopt below is pretty pointless.

That seems pretty much what I was saying.

As you were saying, what's the point of the sniping?

I've no idea.

Someone, somewhere has got a bee in their bonnet, an irrelevant bee I think.

Here's a little thought experiment for you - imagine a tiny hermetically sealed container in which there are 80 atoms of Nitrogen, 20 of oxygen, one each of ozone, helium and argon, and one of water.

Is that molecule of water a vapour or is it moisture?

How could you tell the difference?

Is it at all relevant to a discussion upon the availability of reasonably-priced dehumdifiers from Homebase?

Sure Peter, But if you live in Cambs like me, I don't think the dust or the odd atmospheric commensal bacterium will sludge up the tubes as much as our limescale does. Keep making the swarf. John

Sometimes, sometimes it is heated before it exits by the hot end of the heat pump.

The matrix is cooled by a heat pump. The heat pump pumps heat from place to place, making one place (the matrix) colder while it makes another place hotter. It is impossible* to make coolth without heating something else up.

Yes. However, in order to cool the collecting matrix, the unit has to heat up something else. The bit with the warm air coming out of it. :)

The law of conservation of energy says that the thing heated up gives off an amount of heat equal to the absorbed heat plus the heat used in the process, ie the electrical energy used to run the dehumidifier.

You have to burn electricity, the law of entropy says there is no free lunch, and you need to burn leectricity to make the dehumidifier work.

Overall, the dehumidifier gives out net energy (heat) equal to the energy supplied by the electricity.

Actually it's slightly better (worse?) than that as far as the workshop temperature goes, the condensing water vapour gives off it's heat of evaporation too, and the workshop gets even hotter.

If that's hard to follow, imagine you evaporated some water, the workshop would get cooler, yes? Same thing, but in reverse.

Mine comes out as green gloop. I suppose after filtering it probably would have low dissolved solids compared to hard tapwater, but ...

Airy R. Bean posted the following in uk.rec.models.engineering:

You could have done that via a simple message about the availability of dehumidifiers.

You chose to include mumbo-jumbo dressed as science to offer an incorrect 'explanation' of something when none was needed. You thereby alerted people to the fact you know nothing about the science of dehumidifiers, and consequently shot yourself in the foot.

Next time, just post the message and forget about the 'explanation'.

Or just not posting at all might be the best course for you.

Airy R. Bean posted the following in uk.rec.models.engineering:

None of the substances you mention will be available as atoms in the circumstances you describe.

No thought at all is required. Your experiment falls at the first hurdle.

The message from Mike contains these words:

Mike, Are you saying that if you reduce the water vapour below its dew point temperature that the excess moisture will not condense out and leave the air at 100% RH for this lower temperature and as the air is reheated to room temperature the overall humidity will have been reduced. I thought this was the way dehumidifiers worked. Bill Lamond

No. He just complains that they are bad and that a well respected firm is rubbish.

Perhaps the underlying motivation that is driving your posts is revealed by the rather silly and childish tirade that you have contributed below?

The original message of this thread was exactly as you suggest below, but you seem to have become excessively emotionally disturbed by the accompanying clubman's chit-chat.

Whether the condensate has come from a vapour or has come from airborne moisture is irrelevant, because both are extracted from the air that is presented to the chilled surface of the dehumidifier and result in a drier air environment and reduced rust in the workshop.

Your emotional protests are irrelevant.

I dispute your claim that I attempted to present a scientific thesis - I merely dropped in a bit of idiomatic description about what's going on. You're going to have a difficult journey through life if you leap on every snippet of conversational English and attempt to shout down your respondent because of some rather silly and childish perception that you have about science that causes you so much anxiety.

I think the only shooting-in-the-foot is on your part - by jumping in with both feet (if I may be permitted to mix my metaphors) and trying to divert a gentlemanly conversation from its civilised postings into a children's playground act of sneering 'n' jeering. You did the latter, no-one responded to you and you ended up looking the complete fool that you undoubtedly are by sticking out like a sore thumb. You felt a fool and tried to save face by your silly outburst below, but you failed miserably.

To recap - this is a gentleman's thread (to which you are warmly welcomed if you can find it in yourself to behave like a gentleman) upon the availability of dehumidifiers from Homebase, accompanied by a bit of fire-side chat about the way that they work. It most definitely is not a means for those with childish forms of expression such as yourself to satisfy your psychological yearnings for attention seeking.

Grow up, Mike. .

Once again you reveal your innermost psyche and the emotional disturbances contained therein.

Grow up, Mike!

Peter, sorry on the change of subject, but I have a colleague who works with water treatment systems who has just read this post. He has mentioned that you may have a microbiological contamination that could result in Legionella.

Don't shoot me, I'm only passing the comment on.

Lofty

It's algae, the temperature is wrong for legionella. But thanks for the thought.

Sounds like a sound warning for all of us.

Airy R. Bean posted the following in uk.rec.models.engineering:

There's nothing silly about science and technology. The only silly thing is the way you chose to present yourself when pretending you know something when, clearly, you don't.

I'm being scientific. You're being a fool.

I think we all knew that. And I see you're introducing something else you know nothing about - vapour and moisture. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

I am careful to not to introdice 'emotions' as they have no place in science and technology. I wonder why you have introduced the term - to deflect attention, perhaps? Hardly a rational debating tactic.

I never used the term 'thesis'. Please stop overblowing your contribution.

You're going to have a difficult journey through life of you leap on every idiomatic expression and present it a scientific fact. In fact, it makes you look rather silly and childish. You will find you cannot shout down your opponent when challenged about your childish perceptions, without it causing you so much anxiety.

Any mature observer to this exchange will see who is 'sneering and jeering'. You have tried to save face by your silly outbursts about 'emotions' and 'idiomatic useage', but you have failed miserably.

When you behave like a gentleman - something I suspect you will find difficult - then I'm sure you will be admitted to the thread. When having a 'fireside chat', be careful about your pompous attitude, or it could easily be confused with childish attention-seeking.

Gentleman to the last, are we? I'm amazed they tolerate you on a technical group such as this.

You are a fool.

Airy R. Bean posted the following in uk.rec.models.engineering:

You fool. That does nothing to deflect attention from your pompous mumbo-jumbo.

Mike, most correspondents here seem to have decided to shun Bean in the interest of a more productive and friendly newsgroup. Works a treat! I thoroughly recommend it.

Regards,

Grow up, Mike.