Suits you sir...

...now that's a nice lathe
eBay: 26005760782
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Myford Mat
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Myford Matt
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It is.. All DSG machine are very nice so are Holbrooks. Shame they are all very limited by their very low highest spindle speeds.
Wayne..
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
I'm not sure that's entirely fair. I agree for that 13" lathe 750 rpm is very low, but my 17" from 1955 has a top speed of 1230 rpm. I know that's not high by modern standards, but the lathe is replacing a 400mm (16") TOS which had two speed ranges - up to 1000 & up to 2000 rpm. I had that for 6 years, never used it in the higher range, never had any wish to do so.
Cheers Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
Reply to
Tim Leech
Maybe not, seeing as they are from a bygone age.
The main issue these days is not comparison to more modern machinery but rather the needs of modern carbide tooling. This tooling is not designed for or works well at such low speeds.
Still a lovely machine though, they really had some nice features.
Wayne...
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
Hold on a minute... 2 1/5" diameter at 750rpm is nigh on 500sfpm. The lathe isn't designed as a bloody watchmakers lathe. It'll produce as much blue swarf as one can eat, if turning the parts that it was designed to turn.
Mark Rand RTFM
Reply to
Mark Rand
Hold onto your rattle Mark ;)
500fpm eh. Glad I can go a lot higher than that ;) Maybe it's the reason my inserts last a fair while.
Here's some carbide feeds n speeds for you 500 fpm is NOT fast.
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I'm NOT knocking it... But if you want to go slow then I can recommend the KC720 grade from Kennametal for the speed challenged lathes.
I guess the fact I'm production orintated makes me work that way even if I'm doing model engineering.
Nor is the Colchester Triumph range of lathes a watchmakers lathe and they all did 2000 rpm, the later ones 2500.
Your not meant to eat blue swarf you should be able to chip it enough so you can move aside and hit the guy 10 feet behind you ;)
Wayne...
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
Nitpicking a bit, I think the older Triumphs were limited to around the 1000 rpm mark.
I could certainly do that on my TOS, even in the lower speed range
Going back to DSG's, this item strikes me as a bit odd
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Clearly a fairly old machine (1930's?), with a rather poor & tasteless (IMO) paint job, capacity isn't specified, and a very high price. If he's just using the item to advertise his services, as I suspect, I wouldn't see that as a very good advert.
As for the original DSG in the subject, it's clearly got some extra goodies which the vendor hasn't mentioned. A relieving attachment perhaps? I've seen one, but can't remember what it looked like.
Cheers
Tim Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
Reply to
Tim Leech
Yes the roundhead ones. I was referring more to the more modern triumph 2000 range. Even the Mastif could do 1400 rpm IIRC. I used to run a 90's shortbed VS2500 with the 10HP VFD drive, that thing was so versatile.
I used to constantly do it when roughing billets of 6" en24T and EN40 crankshaft blanks! Nice short chips, but bloody hurt when then managed to hit me. There was really no-one behind me by the way !
It is rather expensive.
and a taper turning attachment which I dont think he mentions.
As lovely as these machines are, they occupy a fair bit of real estate. I'm still surprised that not more Hardinge's are used in ME circles. Even the Feeler copies which come up from time to time are good.
Wayne...
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
Just pissed off because I'm currently trying to remove significant amounts of metal whilst limited, temporarily, to 600rpm and 1/4hp :-(
At 500fpm with the current EN24, I'm getting the swarf coming off red. The nuisance is that I can't keep the speed up with the smaller diameters.
If I broke off from swarf making for long enough to get a pulley for the 3-phase motor and wire it up to the invertor I've already mounted in the stand, then I'd be able to get 1500rpm. Me, stupid... I don't know what you're talking about :-)
Not fast, but perfectly acceptable and that was at 2 1/2", at 17" the speed would be a little more!
Trouble is, they only make drilling bits in that grade :-{
I'm currently looking for better options in CCM* and CNM* styles, but I suspect that the problems will reduce drastically once the Hardinge is operational.
They are very lightly built compared with DSG's. This can be significant when you are turning parts weighing a ton and a half, which is the sort of size we would expect to handle in a 17" DSG
Mark Rand RTFM
Reply to
Mark Rand
I can imagine. When I worked in a small engine development shop, I used to turn a lot of cranks from billet. The Colchester VS2500 used to knock down 5-6" diameter EN40B to say about an inch dia for the end journals in about 10 minutes or less. No-one wanted to be in the workshop working behind me though !
I've turned a LOT of EN24T we used to get almost mirror finishes on it with heavy cuts and negative inserts. Are you rounging my facing to diameter? I found that easier on the lathe sometimes.
CCMT is available I'm sure. I use them on the M300 clone. I think you got to ask, J&L may not list all grades in the catalogue.
So you have at least one redeeming feature ;) I'm very fond of the flat bed Hardinges myself. I own a couple ;) One 5C one 16C.
True. But they are able to take some decent cuts. I prefer the shorter bed variants. Fair bit stiffer. Very popular down here. I'd have another 7Kw VS2500 in a flash if I had the room.
Wayne...
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
On or around Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:19:47 GMT, Wayne Weedon enlightened us thusly:
not sure the earlier ones did.
There was a Mk1 Triumph on ebay earlier for about 300-odd notes.
"8 speeds were provided that could, on the first models, be specified as either 30 to 600 rpm or 40 to 800 rpm; originally a single-speed 3 hp motor (later 5 hp) was fitted but within a few years machines were being offered with either an 8-speed 50 to 1000 rpm speed range or a two-speed motor that provided 16 speeds from 30 to 1200 rpm."
Reply to
Austin Shackles
Thats why the Triumph 2000 was brought out ;) Not used a round head one for years.
Wayne..
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
Mark
Just had a chance to cheack some inserts. I quoted KC720, in fact I think I should of said KC730. That was the positive grade more suited to lower RPM's
Wayne...
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
On or around Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:24:37 GMT, Wayne Weedon enlightened us thusly:
good machines, though, if they've been reasonably looked after. My roundhead student is 1960, apparently, and has had what appears to be a rather chequered career - but with a bit of fettling it's getting quite good again.
However, I won't be buying a new crossfeed screw and nut - found a supplier, but they cost more than I paid for the lathe. I'll have to live with the 14 thou or so backlash in it.
Granted, for serious production work they're out of date, but for small-scale, prototyping etc., you can get a hell of a lot of lathe for your money.
I've been contemplating a 2-speed setup on mine. They originally came with the option of a 2-speed motor, giving both lower and higher speeds. 2-speed single phase motor doesn't sound too easy, so I'm contemplating instead a variation on the main belt drive, which is a biggish flat belt on this one. Replacing the pulleys with some V (or A) belt ones ought to allow space for 2 different sizes.
Unless someone knows different about the single-phase motors... it's got a 1400-ish RPM one on it at the moment which is the correct speed (makes it a 4-pole, I think)
Reply to
Austin Shackles
You might be able to buy stock LH acme screw and nut somewhere, and modify to suit. Or even make them.
I nearly bought a roundhead triumph some years ago, somplete with Ainjest and loads of other tooling, but by then I had been spoilt by faster machines, and as I mainly do production work it was a wise choice. The Ainjest would of been handy on occasions though.
Yes 4 pole. But have you considered a 3 phase 3 or 4Hp motor and VFD? Much easier.
Wayne....
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
On or around Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:35:18 GMT, Wayne Weedon enlightened us thusly:
not if you don't have 3-phase.
Reply to
Austin Shackles
Austin
Single phase input VFD's are easily available upto 3Kw. 2.2Kw is more common though.
A VFD will give you variable speed from just about zero rpm to more or less whatever's safe for your machine.
What HP are you using?
Wayne...
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
Some in the UK might not realise that VFD (variable frequency drive) is the same thing as an inverter drive (or indeed an AC VSD!)
My MkII student had 3hp, I've just converted a CVA with 4hp motor to single phase input inverter drive, which works a treat. 240V input drives do seem to get expensive over a couple of hp, though.
Cheers Tim Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
Reply to
Tim Leech
Yes they do get a little expensive. Last year I bought a 4HP Siemens drive with a good cast iron flange mount motor and braking resistor for one of my cnc retrofits. I think it all came to about a grand.
2.2Kw would not cost anywhere near as much.
Wayne...
Reply to
Wayne Weedon
On or around Tue, 05 Dec 2006 10:26:24 GMT, Wayne Weedon enlightened us thusly:
2.2 is about 3HP which is what the Student should have...
VFD? Variable Field Device? Visceral Function Detector?
OK, I could google for it...
the current motor is only a 1.5HP, and as such not really enough for the machine; it'll only run at 1200 once it's warmed up; it needs a bigger motor anyway, and a bit more top speed would be nice. Colchester sold them running at up to 1500 (with the 2-speed motor) so I don't see why I shouldn't run it at up to 1500.
variable speed would be neat though, especially as I could then up the pulley speed so as to get 1500 top end and no lose the low speed in the process. Currently, it goes down to 54 and I do actually use that sometimes.
Reply to
Austin Shackles

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