Ellis J228-6 TRA Decertified

I've flown this motor many times succesfully.

I followed directions from my dealer on how to use it.

I use a small twiggy from quick burst and put the ignitor 2/3 the way up the motor.

I've seen two fail in use by, one by using large ignitor in it that had lots of ommph and nad one putting the ignitor all the way up to the top of the motor.

Here's the word. Watch for the ROL newsflash - around New Years.

To all,

After numerous attempts of contact, including unanswered questions in regard to dubious quality of some motors, I have no choice but to announce three motor de-certifications.

Two of the motors in question are the M1000 and the L600 76MM reloadable motors manufactured by Ellis Mountain Motor Works. These motors lose their manufacturing for Tripoli use certification as of 31 August 2005. As this is strictly an administrative decertification, they will go on a three year 'burn only' certification expiring 1 Sept

The J228 is hereby decertified immediately for sanctioned use due to much higher than allowed motor failures. Multiple instances of these motors have lost either end upon ignition and once, I've personally seen the case shatter, which could be construed as contrary to NFPA1125's requirement for frangible failure. The debris did not, however, exceed the maximum distance limit, and I only know of the single occurrence of this type, hence this motor is not considered a major safety problem. I do consider it, under our motor use and testing policy, a major quality problem which Mr. Ellis has failed to address, through requests by me and his vendors, again contrary to our requirements for continued certification.

All of these motors can be certified again, if Mr. Ellis presents them properly for certification, and in the case of the J228, with appropriate empirical test data and positive steps to get this motor back to a reliable standard.

I also need to reiterate the status of another of Mr. Ellis's motors, the K600, single use 54 MM. This motor failed violently on the test stand in January due to a characteristic prevalence to over pressure at the ignition event. This motor has never been certified, although it has been offered for sale with many vendors. They received no indication the certification was still pending, or due to his non-communication to solve a problem, not actively applied for. I urge all to insure NAR, Tripoli or CAR motor certification status is known or present on all motors/documentation to be used at sanctioned events.

There been also much hearsay on some other motor of Mr. Ellis's in regards to quality. I will take appropriate action on those motors as justified by reception of MESS reports and subsequent failure for the manufacturer to address each instance accordingly, but I need these reports to make a fair judgment and I have no others received to date.

Again, I feel I have given Mr. Ellis every opportunity to address these issues, but neither I nor Tripoli will allow quality issues to continue without active efforts to fix them.

Regards,

Paul Holmes

Chairman, Tripoli Motor Testing

Phil

Thanks for your reply. I checked my records and I received the K600 back on January 28th this year. Certification was pending as stated at that time on the TRA website. Don't get me wrong, nobody forced me to purchase it. I assumed it would receive approval like the many before it (mistake) and get to fly that motor this summer at Southern Thunder. According to an email I sent to Paul Holmes all Mr. Ellis needed to do was submit another sample motor for testing (and not have it fail on the test stand). I sent several emails to Mr. Ellis throught the link on his website inquiring about the K600 certification, not a single reply. His non-communication seems to filter down to the end users as well. Guess I learned a valuable lesson and I'll certainly show it with my future motor purchases as well. What are the guys going to do with the J228 motors that are decerted? Can't fly it at a sanctioned launch. Can't ship it back to a vendor legally and might have bought one from an on site vendor at a launch clear across the United States. I feel sorry for those guys. __________________ Steve Naquin TRA 677 L2

Phil

Thanks for your reply. I checked my records and I received the K600 back on January 28th this year. Certification was pending as stated at that time on the TRA website. Don't get me wrong, nobody forced me to purchase it. I assumed it would receive approval like the many before it (mistake) and get to fly that motor this summer at Southern Thunder. According to an email I sent to Paul Holmes all Mr. Ellis needed to do was submit another sample motor for testing (and not have it fail on the test stand). I sent several emails to Mr. Ellis through the link on his website inquiring about the K600 certification, not a single reply. His non-communication seems to filter down to the end users as well. Guess I learned a valuable lesson and I'll certainly show it with my future motor purchases as well. What are the guys going to do with the J228 motors that are decerted? Can't fly it at a sanctioned launch. Can't ship it back to a vendor legally and might have bought one from an on site vendor at a launch clear across the United States. I feel sorry for those guys. __________________ Steve Naquin TRA 677 L2

Yet more uncertified motors widely offered by a TRA "CERTIFIED MANUFACTURER FOR TRA".

Hmmm.

Have I ever mentioned this before???

Jerry

I feel ripped off. I didn't get that for ANY motors at all.

Gee, have I ever stated or implied that Ellis propellant is crap?

I told you so.

The J350's from E by A had massive multiples and were NOT decertified.

:)

That just rocks!!

Oh, wait!

Uncertified motors widely distributed!

May I please?

P.S. I told you so.

Jerry

"Personally, I wouldn't build anything with Ellis Mountain motors in mind - we've seen a VERY high CATO rate at our launches, and I rather doubt anyone in our club will be buying any more of them."

- Kevin Trojanowski, Tripoli webmaster

Phunnie!!

ROFL!!

His non-communication seems to filter down to the end users as

Why don't you distrust the certification process too?

Huh?

That is bogus.

jerry, As you well know, TRA does not certify manufacturers, They only certify motors.

Stroking yourself?

I don't think so.

They most certainly do.

Moron.

Exactly how does TRA certify manufacturers? TMT only accepts motors for testing. They do not test rocket motor manufacturers. That's the job of Fed, state and local AHJs.

But you knew that already.

Multiply that by several thousand dollars and maybe you could start to imagine how your former business associates feel.

Of course you did -- you think everyone's propellent is crap, except yours.

How "widely" were they distributed? Be specific, and post something verifiable. Don't just pull something out of your aft closure this time.

Go right ahead, distribute all the uncertified motors you want! I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing how that works out for you.

No one is stopping you. Just like no one stopped Ellis.

I'm sure Kenny would be happy to sell them for you. ;-)

That's because you got caught back dating your motors.

Why is that funny? Stopping and attempting to prevent situations like this is what the cert process is designed to do. IMO, it did its job.

Don't you think this confirms that there is a problem? A small igniter part way up will bring the motor up to pressure more slowly - sounds like someone knows there is a problem.

I think Jerry is refering to the requirements that manfacturers must meet prior to submitting anything for testing.

And that certification stands. Isn't TRA perfect?

Bull.