Ellis J228-6 TRA Decertified

Wrong. Read the announcement -- the motor has been decertified.

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It may be so, but that is the manufactures recomendation.

Now, I'm not being an Ellis Apologist at all.

As Phil pointed out, it makes the motor take longer to come up to pressure.

It seems that if you fast start a thors hammer motor, the nozzle will toss out the back.

so , here was my point.

if the motor works as instructed by the manufacture, but people are not reading the instructions does that make the motor bad ?

or is it that the motor does not work as others do, so it's intrinsicly bad ?

I just might agree with that ,see this below

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I witnessed a sale of Yes I did, I placed the ignitor at the top, just as the instructions say to.

Well, they didn't, but the customer was simply knowing how he used other motors.

Anyway the dealer set him up with a pro38 or something and he got a good flight in.

Rocketflite used to recommend nozzle end ignitions of their deeply cored BP motors. Lighting old FSI F100s the same way increased their reliability as well.

Sounds like Ellis should do what Rocketflite did on their BP motors: The ignitors had a red STOP flag at the proper insertion depth.

Good idea.

Problem is Ellis STOPed suppling ignitors with their motors about a year ago.

fun ones are the E12 and F20 ellis 24mm motors. find an ignitor to fit inside them that will fire them.

Can't be much worse than the Apogee/Aerotech B7, C4 et al. I made really tiny wire wrap ignitors that fit them. I bet they'd even fit a MicroMaxx nozzle if it were deeper!

yea, that gets them to fit inside, now what to make that thor's propellent light ;-)

hint, you won't be able to fit enough pyrogen on the wire wrap head and still fit in the nozzle to get a 100% ignition rate.

once in a while you can get lucky.

The

So does Jerry's women

Snicker :-)

I am smelling it Jerry.

Actually, Jerry's women aren't women and that isn't a flag. ;-)

I know I'm not happy about the fact that if the K600 motor failed on the test stand in January and was listed on the TRA website as "motors igniting soon" why were these still being sold almost five months later at HPR launches? Again I know I should have waited until it passed cert testing so it's my own fault there, like I said I learned a valuable lesson.

I can't say how many were produced but I can tell you a vendor was selling these through the ROL auctions this past weekend along with the J228 motors plus those sold at HPR launches. Where's protection for the consumer? If Mr. Ellis had no intent of certifying this motor why produce them and put it through distribution and only submit "ONE" for testing?

Maybe I'll just give it to the BATFE next time they come to check my magazine and tell them I don't need it since I can't use it .....

What does the consumer now do with the J228 he bought last week and paid shipping, hazmat ect. for that he can't legally return ship to the distributor or manufacturer?

__________________ Steve Naquin TRA 677 L2

In your dreams!

I think the results of all testing sessions should be made available to club members as soon as practical after the testing session. My guess is that Paul tested the motor, it failed, he gave the manufacturer time to resubmit and he (Ellis) did not.

Vendors are free to sell whatever they like whenever they like. Caveat emptor. It's not TRA or NARs place to police what the vendors sell.

Yep, don't buy vapor ware or vapor certs.

The protection is the certified motor list. What else can there really be?

It sounds like he submitted two and one failed. I can't guess why he did not follow up. Perhaps there was a design issue that has yet to be resolved. Maybe he's just busy with other motors?

I think there is a way for the original shipper to issue a return shipment label to the customer, but I haven't tried this myself yet. Someone will still have to pay the hazmat fee (again). It sux for all involved. Still, having to eat the cost of the motor is better than having it destroy one of your rockets too.

-Jeff

Motor mfg's submit motors and they get tested 3 to 6 months later. Why does it take so long? . I think if TRA or NAR can't get the motor tested within 30 days it should get a temporary cert so it can be used. There isn't much incentive to develop new motors when it will take 6 months to get it on the cert list. There are many motors that are certified and have not been added to the lists. .

Correct. Proper Paperwork, documents and proof of a few items need to be presented to TMT in order for a manufacture to be considered a Certified Tripoli Motor Manufacture. There is a list on the TMT Webpage of them. I count 13 of them...

Once a manufacture is certified by TMT, then each motor needs to be submitted for testing. Its like bench testing a computer, but rather than a computer, its a motor.

Tom Sanders Contrail Rockets

In the US there is only 1 person who tests motors. Paul Holmes, but you already knew that. Paul is unpaid for his work for TMT.

In Canada there are multiple people who can do certifications for motors, and less manufactures. I think all tests are done at CTI. I think thats part of the reason CTI got so many motors tested in such a short period of time a while back.

I have been to a few testing sessions where Paul tests motors, and it is a long, hot job. Remember its Arizona, and it is hot year round (almost), and deathly hot in the summer!

We fall into a different catagory, and that may be why I have no complaints right now with TMT. We have our own stand which we Must Use for testing our motors right now. TMT doesn't have one large enough for large hybrids, so we got his full attention the 2 times which he came down so far this year.

I havn't heard any suggestions though... Do any of the other manufactures have a gripe??? Tom Sanders Contrail Rockets

Have an indy launch where you can use it? I'm not sure I would want to use it but you should be able to.

I'd discuss this with the dealer & try to contact Ellis.