[F-FT] I joined TRA

My goodness, what a mature, erudite manner of creating friction between groups. Nicely rationalized, as well. Intentionally insult "a subset" by insulting an entire organization.

So, just what is it that comprises an "NAR weenie"? Small rockets? An attention to safety? Just what could it be?

IMO, the fact that this sort of ad hominem is uttered, and is apparently considered acceptable, indicates some serious problems. I personally will have nothing to do with an organization that condones or promotes backbiting.

Weenie OClassen NAR 13578 L1

That sounds like the exact same scenario I went through.

Doc

You are probably correct.

Drake "NAR Weenie and proud of it" Damerau

Worry not, it's not the organizations that do it, but rather some of the members. There are members on both sides of the fence who throw aspersions at the other side.

While they may not see eye-to-eye on everything, the two organizations get along quite well. I also know that Ken Good and Mark Bundick periodically discuss issues of interest to both organizations.

-Kevin

So "they know who they are" and you can just globally use the term and "let god sort out the bodies"?

Hmmm

How convenient. And rude.

Who said any organization condones it? If you have a problem with being labeled for having a certain pattern of behavior, it's you problem not everyone elses.

Also, I don't necessarily agree with the weenie characteristics you list. Especially safety.

How do you interpret " In fact I can only thing if a small number of them. They are a 'special' kind of whiner. There are a lot of good people that are members of NAR." as globally using the term?

Here's another one for you - Jerry is a 'special' kind or moron. Let's see if 'Weenie OClassen' identifies with this one too.

You guys are special and should get a weenie (or in Jerry's case moron) badge that you can proudly wear. You are what you are and there's no shame in that.

Where did you get the notion, backbiting is promoted by the organization??

I'm glad safety isn't on the list. What does constitute weenie characteristics? And what is it about those characteristics that potentially relates them to NAR? Are there equally TRA weenies?

Folks are right that I shouldn't blame the organization for the behavior of individuals. Yet the behavior of individuals reflects on the organization. A conundrum.

The bare knuckles of name-calling rarely helps a thing. I simply stated (or should have stated more clearly) that I am far less likely to join an organization where this sort of behavior is encountered. You're right, Phil, this is solely my problem. Keeps me out of a lot of organizations, including a number whose aims I support but whose methodology I abhor. Ah, well.

KO

With Bob and Jerry being members of NAR, it's nice to see you don't apply the double standard thought process..(;-)

See above..(:-)

Fred

Oh, does the NAR censor its members' speech?

I agree with a lot of what you said here. I do think that the TRA had some accountability problems in the past, but I also believe that the vast majority of members don't really give a hoot. Guys are just out to fly and have a good time, not to get wrapped up in politics.

I joined the NAR a couple of years ago. For me it was a money thing when I chose an organization. The only reason I joined was for certification. At the time, the TRA was 70.00, and the NAR was 47.00. So that sealed my choice. Now they cost about the same, so I might join the TRA when my NAR membership is up.

My club came in to being as a TRA prefecture, and the vast majority of the membership is TRA - with some holding dual memberships. My experience is the same as yours. I was welcomed and have never once been ridiculed because I'm in the NAR and not the TRA. Like I already mentioned, most could give a hoot about the politics of it.

You're one of several in the club, Joe. The only time it matters is when we're electing a Prefect or someone wants to certify. Beyond that, who cares? We sure don't...

-Kevin

snip,

Kevin,

Verna & I have been going to TRA & NAR launches for 9 years now and we know many members of each group. While I don't doubt there may be a few in either organization that have an axe to grind with the other, for one reason or another, in all the time I have known people in both groups, I have never one time seen animosity displayed at a launch or club meeting.

About 90% of NAR 665 - TRA / 81, belong to one or the other and I can tell you in no uncertain terms, we all work very well together and to which organization anyone belongs to, is never an issue. It's my experience that the club as a whole is much stronger and appealing to a much broader base, than if it were just one or the other.

The largest thing we've ever built and flown is Verna's 3 stage Saturn V but it is obviously not HPR. 90% of what we fly are 3 engines or less. Whenever we have attended TRA launches, we were welcomed, small rockets and all and I've never once heard anyone say they didn't want TRA members at a NAR launch. Wanting to exclude either group just doesn't make sense to me.

FWIW, the only place I have ever heard of complaints is on rmr.

Randy

Only TRA tries to do that.

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

So far :-)

Correct.

Sad but not relevant to the issues raised. Tripoli is NO LONGER a membership organization according to the BOD. Seriously.

You got yours!!

Jerry

___________________________________________

I would like to point out for the record that with Kevin's help, I successfully subscribed this morning. I believe Doc's issue has been resolved as well.

Nothing like some old fashioned human assisstance.

Thanks Kevin!

Hi Kevin,

Let me step in here and give you some facts:

1) Mark "Bunny" Bundick never fired a high powered motor until the LATE 1990s. Before that he was ADIMENTLY AGAINTS High Powered Rocketry.

2) NAR people tended and still do from upon the "bigger is better" slant that TRA and other Amateur organizations embrace.

3) NAR was FORCED to team with TRA for financial reasons. You see, High Powered rocketry is SUCH a HUGE financial gain, that NAR finally accepted it in the mid to late 1990s. It was money. Money through certification of motors. Money through High Power certifications. It was MONEY that brought NAR into the MODERN age.

4) During the 1980s, NAR stood by and said nothing PUBLICALLY about the Estes Video where Estes took a pallet of reloads, salted them with black powered, lit the stack, then forwarded the tape to the BATF ... guess we all have VERY short memories on that one eh?

5) NAR launches would ban the use of motors over G during the 1980s and would cite insurance and non-certification reasons.

6) G. Harry Stine, Vern Estes, both were against model rocket motors that fall into the high power scale. Why? They cited safety ... but I wonder why Irv Walt and Leroy Piester (Centuri founder) were making high power composite motors as early as the late 1960s and selling them to hobbyists ... could it be that Stine and Estes say these new composite motors as a threat to their commercial black powered offerings? Well in the late 1980s, Estes obviously did when they submitted their salted video to the BATF and NTSB.

There is more ... allot more, but your mind is made up and so is mine. I will never support NAR in anyway. They did their best to destroy high power rocketry from the beginning and only now when NAR is threatened, they offer an olive branch to TRA ... too little, too late NAR.

Just needed to bring some of you who were not active during those "dark days" up to speed about your beloved NAR ...

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