[FFT] Hope this isn't beating a dead horse, but...

Consider these simple facts.

FEDERAL limits are:

ATF: none

FAA: over 113g propellant or 453g liftoff needs notificaton. : over 125g propellant or 1500g liftoff needs waiver.

CPSC: Over 80N or over F requires adult purchase.

That'sit,that'sall.

Why not conform ALL safety codes, NFPA codes and club practices to these limits? They are the minumums unnder Federal law.

Just Factual Jerry

Do you have new information to share with the group yet??

Fred

Wow - cool!

Eldred

Hi again Doug,

I know that your document (below) wasn't meant to address this issue, and it might be too much of a digression/distraction to try to do so, but another confusing point is the safety distance required of different size motors/configurations:

The MRSC requires 30 ft. when launching anything larger than a D (up to a double G). On the other hand, the HPRSC requires 100 ft. for an H. Of course, these are both the same impluse range. In fact, the HPRSC doubles the 100 ft. up to 200 ft. if multiple motors are involved - a considerable discrepancy from the 30 ft. required by the MRSC.

You'd think as Rocket Scientists, one could engineer the two codes to have a smooth transition rather than a weird discontinuity. ;^)

Any chance your doc could cover this?

In fact you can build a 1499g rocket that is LMR and qualifies for a 30' launch distance. Add one more piece of wadding so it's 1501g and it now requires 200'.

It's only been 13 years since the original NFPA 1127 committee fubared this, and then when I pointed out it to them changed the rules to make it even worse. I've been complaining about it ever since that time. I'm convinced that there is no one on the committee who meets the description you used above.

And I told you so years before Jerry did!

Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD!

Hi, Bit,

Thanks, I'm flattered that you'd ask. Like Bob, I agree the tables are a bit confusing. Maybe there's a way to better present the distance info, but I think trying to combine it with the motor/mass info will be too complicated. Probably better to keep them separate.

If I get a chance, I'll take a closer look at the distance info. But that could be while. There's a few guys here on rmr who I promised stuff to years ago :)

BR, Doug

Thanks, and I agree - separate would be better. I'll send you a tuit (circular) if I come across an extra.

Cheers,

Eliminated would be better. 50 feet for ANY HPR is sufficient for blast and shrapnel.

Jerry

What "inherently legal"?

Our local fire marshals would not accept _any_ rockets as "inherently legal": even "model" rockets require specific AHJ consent, per the state "pyro" code. (The requirements are simpler in the "model rocket" category than in the other categories, but there's no presumption of something being "inherently" legal based on its falling within the NAR/NFPA definition of "model rocketry".

Admittedly, your local regs may vary (I'm in California)... can you cite, from your applicable local/state regulations, where it says that rockets are "inherently legal" if and only if they're "Real NFPA1122-style Model Rockets"?

-dave w

I'm curious - up to what impluse do you consider HPR to be? I've seen stuff let loose that I wouldn't want to be 500' from let alone 50'

After an cheese omelet with onions, 50 feet is way too close to me :)

Doug

You are exaggerating.

Maybe a little but not as much as you are.

What if you leave out the cheese?

What about "Oh No"?

You have to leave out the eggs.

Ah, must be the sulfur in the eggs.

Maybe for most stuff, but it's probably a bit closer than I'd want to be during an M or N motor cato. If you include some of the larger EX projects, 50 feet is way too close.

HPR is NOT EX!!

Would you be 100% happy if I said 100 feet for L and larger?

NASA used 300 feet for Loki Darts and those are effectively Buttkicker P's. At 3 times the chamber pressure and a steel case.